Dance of the Vampires and Urinetown- Page 2

[IssaMe]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 7:46am

As you can tell by my name here, I was directly involved with DOTV. Am also quite, quite familiar with Tanz. I find them to be very, very different - and intentionally so. Anyone who went through the DOTV experience could site numerous decisions along the way in which the two editions diverged from one another. In fact, that was the whole idea - for good or for ill.

P.S. For the sake of discretion (oh, the stories to be told), I swore that I'd never comment on this show again, but I just couldn't let this pass uncommented on.

Updated On: 12/14/06 at 07:46 AM

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 8:02am

Why did they have to be different? I'd much rather "Tanz" never have been a Broadway musical AT ALL if they had NO interest in performing what was so successful in Austria. It was a crime, even Michael Kunze has, basically, gone on record as calling it an unauthorized mockery of his work. I'm surprised he didn't sue later on. We all know Steinman's feelings, that was a controversy...

I just don't understand... If you DON'T feel the work is going to work, WHY option it? The show was fine how it was in Vienna, then they had to go and - first of all - CHANGE everything when it was already fine, PERFECTLY O.K. If they didn't think it would work, well... they should have spared us a lot of misery and ran while they could. It's done NO ONE any favours

I have also heard tales of the rehearsals, from several people involved, and I feel so sorry for what the German team had to go through

[RyanDavis]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 12:52pm

Look, I am in Berlin right now. I saw a production of Tanz last night and I can tell you, as someone who has now seen both productions, that it is clear that several scenes and dance numbers are staged almost identically.

if you all would like to defend the johns, go right ahead. but they are totally over-the-top and embarrassing hypocrites.

i blogged about it

blog.myspace.com/ryannewyork

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 7:27pm

We're not defending them, as far as we're concerned they can go to hell for screwing with our favorite show, right, Rockfen?

[Mythus]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 7:42pm

Agreed, gvendo2005, even though that wasn't directed at me. :)

[temms]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 12:29pm

I had a similar thought when I saw the German "Tanz", having seen the Broadway first. There were three major choreographic moments I vividly remember from Broadway, where I was under the impression that Carraffa had staged them. They were the aerial moves in the Red Boots ballet, the dance number with the gay son and the double in the mirror, and the vampires crawling out of their coffins to sing "Eternity". Those three moments were almost verbatim what I saw in "Tanz" and certainly made me raise my eyebrows, since I was under the impression that the Broadway version was a complete reinvention.

That said, I far enjoyed the German production more. Not a great show, but I'm happy to listen to a Steinman score played well.

But clearly, major bits of staging were nearly identical between the two productions and it does seem a little odd that it's the same people accusing others of pilfering their work without credit.

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 1:33pm

Just for the record, Crawford, behind closed doors, had much more artisitic input and control then you know or would like to admit. Not to rehash, But there were WAY too many cooks trying desperately to fix the mishap it became, a mishap that Steinman signed off on.From the tone of the show to it's star. He siged off on them. When it was clear the show would not be a hit he backpedalled so vigorously as to avoid further projects of his from being canned. He was a coward, abandonning his piece and his cast that exhaustingly previewed for almost 3 months trying fix that piece of dreck. He has no place on Broadway,for he has no respect for it.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:42pm

Oh, shush.

Steinman had nothing to do with those changes. Steinman wanted the German show from the start. He has said that endlessly, on his blog, in articles from the pre-production period itself.

And you know what? I am DAMN GLAD that he left the show, because why should a composer - ANY composer - have to front up to something that was totally out of their control, that took their hard work and transformed it into a totally mockery. Now, it's not as if the changes were conspicuous, I have seen the show and it was the most horrendous - it wasn't EVEN FUNNY - mockery I have EVER encountered in ALL of my experience with musical theatre.

It was like taking "Phantom" and casting Robin Williams in the lead part. Robin is uncomfortable with the part and says, "hey, Andrew, Charles and Richard... you reckon you can make it appeal more to me?" ALL of that hard work, ALL of those thrilling awards and CONTINUAL popularity in German, GONE TO WASTE because of a bunch of hack producers, an un-inspired creative team and a cast that were in the wrong show altogether. Leah Hocking (who played Magda) even went on record saying she was afraid of gothic stuff. Then WHY THE HELL star in the damn musical?? Pick your projects better next time

The same with Crawford. Don't even start !!

Yeah, I KNOW that theatre is a collaborative process, I KNOW that that you never get what you want, I KNOW that it doesn't work out the same as it does on paper, but this was the most embarrassing, humiliating mockery EVER and the show was an absolute piece of crap. It's, single-handedly, out of all the flops I know of.. the worst, most horrifying incident of a show going wrong. It was devastating

It was a big phenomenal success in Germany, Polanski directed it for God's sake. Is it any wonder Steinman would walk away from it? If he stayed and supported the piece of ****, he would have betrayed the German cast team and alienated himself from a true piece of theatre that is probably the most successful commercial piece of theatre ever to be premiered in Vienna.

Don't give me that CRAP that Steinman is not welcome on Broadway, I don't see why anyone should ever have to be forced to support such an utter piece of crap like "Dance Of The Vampires". I salute Jim, and his decision

And DON'T say Jim has no respect for Broadway, unless you know his history with it. NOOO, he's not just the guy who wrote the songs for "meatballs", he was a protege of Joseph Papp himself. If it wasn't for Meat rocking up to an audition, he'd still be doing theatre now.

I agree that it was a controversial decision, but so what? Steinman DEFINES controversy and extremism. I'm glad that he made such a nasty statement as he did, because none of those people involved had ANY idea what they were doing, they did NOT deserve to SUCCEED because of what they did to that show.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:43pm

And for the record, VAMPIRES is NOT a Steinman piece

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:44pm

What is it, then?

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:50pm

A piece by Michael Crawford and his ego, or a musical equivalent to anarchy and chaos

[tourboi]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:55pm

I didn't see it in Austria (or Germany), but did see it on Broadway and have seen photos of the production in Europe.

The physical design in many places looks very different....so how are they exact replicas?

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:56pm

Believe me, it's there. Rancido & Carrappa copied it so poorly it's laughable. I hope someone sends the judge a video of DOTV

Updated On: 12/15/06 at 03:56 PM

[teddyp2]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 7:57pm

Make sure you copyright "rancido" and "carrapa" its BRILLIANT!

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 8:44pm

Kharma's a bitch, Steinman approved Crawford's casting and it bit him in the ass.He wanted a hit and the money that he thought Michael would bring in. It backfired. He didn't even have the class to say goodbye to his cast or to alert them of his feelings , Instead, he boycotted opening night and had a tell-all article.He's a coward and had NO respect for those he "befriended" during rehearsals.He's a boradway hack. Let him keep writing interminable 80's powerballads. NO producer worth their salt will touch him or his projects again. And frankly I saw Tanz and it too was terrible. Had no chance in NYC. When Total eclipse opens act 2 and is to be taken seriously,obviously there is a complete lack of taste and credibility.Sure they liked it over there, Starlight Express was a huge hit in Europe as was Grease, c'mon guy.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 9:06pm

*rolls eyes*

You know, if you're inclined to reply to me AT LEAST check your facts.

Steinman did NOT approve Crawford's casting. All along Steinman wanted Rob Evan or Chuck Wagner to play the role. His corrupt manager, and the producers involved, insisted they'd need a star to sell their musical. If Steinman ever said anything good about Crawford, it was a publicity stunt

However, Rob Evan DID end up as the understudy to Krolock and would have played BATMAN for the Warner Bros. musical

Secondly, how on earth do you even KNOW he "didn't have the class to say goodbye", the story I heard is that he's still friends with various members of the cast, and VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE CAST have gone ON RECORD speaking, almost totally agreeing, about Steinman's feelings. So PLEASE check your FACTS there. Also, Michael Kunze - the German lyricist - expressed even MORE sour feelings than Steinman did

Thirdly, LOL, this is where you REALLY fall apart, LOL, Jim is working with Terry Jones on "Bat Out Of Hell", the full production of his 30-year musical project "Neverland", that is going to be staged in London, 2008. Wilson Milam ("The Lieutenant of Innishmore") will be directing, choreography is by Mark Dendy ("The Pirate Queen"), costumes by Eiko Ishioka (Cirque Du Soleil, Bram Stoker's Dracula - Directed By Francis Ford Coppola, etc.), set & theatre design by Marc Fisher (designer of the original Pink Floyd "The Wall" tour, among MAAAAANY other break-through concert spectaculars), animation by Gerald Scarfe (YEP, THE Gerald Scarfe HIMSELF) and lighting by Marc Brickman.

Furthermore, this is being staged in a theatre EXPRESSLY designed and BUILT for it. The show will be a larger-than-life spectacular premiering on the West End stage in 2008.

Hardly the achievement of someone given the bum-rush by the Broadway community, not to mention several other projects. One of them is to be produced by the York Theater Company.

FOURTHLY, PLEASE check your history before you BOTHER to even SAY a word about Steinman to my face. He was the protege of Joseph Papp, working for several years at the New York Shakespeare Festival, composing, directing or starring in several productions. Meat Loaf walked in, knocked him out, decided to write an album for him and BANG! 3rd Greatest Selling Rock Album Of All Time

LOL, and FIFTHLY, I don't even know why I BOTHER WASTING MY TIME WITH THIS ONE, yeah yeah... the Europeans are suuuuch cultural hacks. That's why they gave us Baroque, the civilization and "renaissance" of music. That's why they gave us Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Tchaikovsky, Wilhelm Richard Wagner with his revolutionary "music-dramas", among them included the life-changing "Der Ring Des Niebelungen", some of the most historic and regarded musical works of all time, MOST of them originated in Vienna or Germany. In 1997, the great controversial Roman Polanski staged "Tanz Der Vampire" at the Raimund, featuring a typical, layered and diverse intriguing deep score by Jim Steinman.

SIXTHLY, a THIRD OF THAT MUSIC survived into that piece of crap that got performed on Broadway.


EDIT: One more thing, you don't HONESTLY believe anything that comes out of Michael Reidel's pen do you? Hahaha. Kunze has even said in interviews that THOSE QUOTES from JIM were invented by the journalist, tweaked around to put Steinman in a bad light. That's what USUALLY happens in the media, people like a better STORY

Updated On: 12/15/06 at 09:06 PM

[teddyp2]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 9:08pm

Is it just me or does this whole URINETOWN thing reeeek of two guys who are unable to get any work. I think they like to blame others for infringing on thier only hit, but come on another director has documentation that they ripped him off from the Fringe and there is so much clear cut theft from DOTV.

Agree / Disagree?!

[MikeH]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 9:24pm

For what it's worth, I thought that DOTV was much more enjoyable during previews than it was in the final version. There was a lot of music carried over from Tanz that was cut away during previews. While the final version was better paced and slicker, it wasn't nearly as fun. And both versions don't even hold a candle to Tanz, although I enjoyed some of the new music.
I wish Broadway.com still had the rehearsal and opening night footage of DOTV. When exactly did Steinman decide to walk away from the show? I've heard the demo of the "Invitation" scene that was made with a comedic Krolock complete with goofy accent. Was that before Crawford was brought on board? Wasn't it clear from the beginning that DOTV would be radically different from Tanz?
Updated On: 12/15/06 at 09:24 PM

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 9:48pm

Technically, Steinman didn't even "walk away". He was seen prominently during previews and the remainder of the show's run.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 9:50pm

"Is it just me or does this whole URINETOWN thing reeeek of two guys who are unable to get any work."

Were they ever involved in another Broadway show?

[MikeH]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 9:51pm

Do you think Tanz will ever get an English production, perhaps in the West End?
Updated On: 12/15/06 at 09:51 PM

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/15/06 at 9:53pm

According to producer Andrew Braunsberg, a U.K. production is "in the works" as well as a movie directed by Polanski. It will be his next major project

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 12/16/06 at 2:04am

He disappeared a coupke days before opening and NEVER returned.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/16/06 at 2:18am

So how come one of my good friends had a 30-minute chat with him during a matinee? DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR