Dance of the Vampires and Urinetown

[jensen11us2]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 2:44pm

By now everyone has either heard or read about the whole Urinetown controversy, and for the most part I think we all can agree it’s a tad ridiculous. I personally would like to call John Rando out on being a hypocrite. His production of Dance of the Vampires was almost an exact replica of the original in Germany, but because it was such a huge flop no one said anything. It just shows how much this is not driven on creative rights but on the sure fact that someone wants some money. Anyone?

[AnotherDay46]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 2:47pm

I don't know about that. DOTV in Germany was a lot more serious of a show and the song order is different. DOTV on Broadway tried to get a laugh out of almost every line. I mean, it had the same basic story line, but they were a bit different.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 2:48pm

The original DoTV was in Austria, not Germany.

[jensen11us2]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 2:52pm

They style of the show may have been different but the staging of the show was pretty much identical!

[Marlothom]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 2:53pm

I think the only way John Rando could be deemed a hypocrite is if he were to direct a show in the midwest that had previously been on Broadway and "borrow, use, copy (whichever anyone prefers)" substantial amounts from the Broadway production without giving credit.

I don't know all the facts surrounding "Dance.." but I think the situation is different when you are dealing with an original Broadway mounting; I imagine the show had the same producers as it did abroad and they wanted to keep their investment safe by using as much as possible from the "European hit."

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 2:55pm

Well, it's not like Polanski was gonna march over here and ream him out or anything...

[jensen11us2]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 2:56pm

In the original Broadway mounting no credit was given to any prior productions.

[Marlothom]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 3:01pm

Jensen I know, but my point that there is a distinction is that Dance of the Vampires was an original Broadway mounting of (if I recall correctly) a European hit. I am sure the producers and powers that be had a lot to say with how this production was staged. While I saw the Broadway show, I did not see the German/Austrian production, so I cannot say for sure. But with the millions invested I am sure it was imperative that the look and feel of this Broadway mounting be identical to the "tried-and-true" show.

There is a clear distinction between that situation and a show in Ohio (which I think i read had the option of purchasing additional rights such as choreography and staging but did not) allegedly using 90% of a Broadway show.

I can sense you have strong opinions about this (you started the thread), and I respect that, but I was just pointing out that to me, there is a clear distinction between the harm Rando alleges to have suffered and the harm the original European director, or the original Fringe director could claim.

Updated On: 12/13/06 at 03:01 PM

[secondcity]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 3:48pm

RANDO HAS SUFFERED HARM?

Did you see Dance of the Vampires?! I pretty much had to go to into therapy, if anyone was harmed it was us the audience!

[Marlothom]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 3:55pm

Haha, I did see it (for free thankfully) and remember i could not get "total eclypse of the heart" musical theatre version out of my head for years.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 5:24pm

Here's my stance on the whole John Rando/John Carrafa Urinetown thing:

There's nothing artistically wrong with keeping in the "spirit" of the original production, or even with taking a few basic ideas from it. For example, if someone wanted to copy Hal Prince's idea that Sweeney Todd be set inside a giant factory, go ahead. But a line has to be drawn someplace, and I think that where that line is should be determined by the original creator. For example, if Prince really didn't want anybody else to use the factory idea, he would have to legally copyright it. I think this kind of thing is pretty extreme though, and that most rational directors/choreographers/designers wouldn't go to such lengths, with the exception of choreography and things like that. But if they want to, they have the option. I think this would work best, provided that copyrighted ideas could be used for an additional fee. I mean, if it's such a great idea, then why not let other people use it as long as you are appropriately compensated and credited?

[Mythus]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 5:41pm

Tanz der Vampire and Dance of the Vampires alike very little. Hell, DotV should be sued for not being like Tanz der Vampire.

[exedore]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 7:34pm

I find that I have to agree with jester. While there's a great deal of script differences, the scenes that stay similar between the two are almost carbon copy, and this leads to a big part of DotV's unevenness - the material from the original sticks out becuase it's not in line with what else is going on. If you were to compare the big scenes (the finale, Carpe Noctem, Unstillbare Gier), they're almost identical except that the US version looks like the SM's interpretation rather than if Polanski had been there to give direction personally. The choreographer was as guilty as Rando, if not significantly moreso.

As far as differences in comparable scenes, the only major song that's in both versions that I would consider *drastically* changed is Stärker als wir sind/Braver than we are, which was put through a crap-ifier for the US production both lyrically and directionally. Then again, the US production didn't have the fantastic set that the German/Austrian productions do either.

[Broadwayboy2631]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 7:45pm

I hate it when people do posts that address two topics at once.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 7:51pm

I have NEVER heard that DOTV was "exactly the same" as it was in Germany.

First of all DOTV was a major success in Vienna (where it premiered and I saw it) and in Germany, and as has already been stated in Europe it was a much more serious show.

I only wish I could have seen the Broadway production so that I could have compared them.

[Mythus]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 8:00pm

Dance of the Vampires was just bad. Bad in the style of "In My Life". I'm glad you didn't see it, elphaba, because you would've been cringing the entire time. The entire tone of Dance of the Vampires was completely different from Tanz der Vampire - TdV was dark and engaging, DotV was a sickeningly campy comedy with penis jokes. And a lot of the lyrics were changed to things that didn't even come close to their German counterparts - you tell me where "Your banana is peeling" is in "Wenn Liebe in Dir ist".
Updated On: 12/13/06 at 08:00 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 8:15pm

oh my Mythus.......you're right, good I didn't see it.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 8:22pm

I have dance of the vampires and tanz der vampire on company dvds and the 2 shows are very similar.
They tried to punch up the laughs in the broadway production but the original one was still very funny.
The staging,costumes ,lighting are all pretty much the same with just a few songs switched around.

[exedore]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 9:24pm

Mythos:
There wasn't a line about peeling bananas in the German, but Herbert does tell Alfred that he has a nice arse. The scene in the crypt with Chagal and Magda has a song in which the final verse is double entendre for getting blowjobs. There's plenty of camp and crude humour in the original, but it's used in a far more intelligent way (the vampires are vivid, direct, and sexual whereas the villagers are bland, timid, and chaste).

/says the person who did a line by line translation from the published libretto.

[Mythus]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 9:48pm

I do know the German lyrics, exedore, I speak German. "Intelligent" seems the right word to describe TdV...it was much darker than DotV and, frankly, a lot more enjoyable.

There's a full libretto available online (of DotV), if anyone's curious...not sure how entirely legal that is, so I'll just stop now.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 12/13/06 at 10:48pm

In no way was DOTV anything like Tanz. In fact, I (and all of Jim Steinman's fans) would be more grateful if Rando had actually copied Tanz down to the last letter. About the only staging copied was by the choreographer, and when that was not going on, about the only material remotely similar was a few of the songs.

There is a definitive version of Tanz waiting to be produced, if someone will just pick up the option.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 3:32am

PLEASE do not insult "Tanz Der Vampire" by mentioning that appalling Broadway job in the same sentence. Rancido and Carrappa's musical was nothing like the beautiful, astonishing and layered operatic piece in Austria.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 3:45am

And, by the way... IMO, there is always something good about ANY show. DOTV, for me, holds the undistinguished position of there being NOTHING good about it. AT ALL. The direction was sloppy, no continuum whatsoever (there was continuum in the previews, the director CUT that.. believe it or not). The choreography, Carrappa says himself, was frantic improvisation. It is the worst excuse of choreography I have ever seen. The Minskoff was too big, TANZ was more intimate at the Raimund Theater in Vienna. The costumes were like a hideous version of Disney, the ones in Vienna were subtle. In short, there was nothing even SUBTLE about Vampires on Broadway.

Steinman, the composer, has gone on record as calling it "an utter sh*t-pile". I don't remember any composer, in recent memory, ever commenting THAT controversially about a flop before. I know ALW recalled "Jeeves", then went around to every store in London, buying up copies lol.

The show was absolutely hideous, IMO. Crawford played Krolock as the Professor is played in Vienna. Auberjonois was good, but he wasn't supposed to play the part that his part became. Max von Essen portrayed Alfred with too much "bravado", whereas Alfred is supposed to be a shy, timid character. Mandy Gonzalez belted everything, the Sarah in Vienna was haunting and soft. Magda and Rebecca were always on-stage together, Magda and Rebecca had some chilling solo moments in Vienna. Chagal was a caricature, like a bad Disney cartoon, whereas he was a frantic and paranoid father / innkeeper in Vienna, and we sympathize with his total loss of apprehension as he is "awakened" as a vampire.

In Vienna, Herbert wasn't a total insult to the gay community. He didn't strut all over the stage, he just slinked about in the shadows... "Wenn Liebe In Dir Ist" was a lot more elegant. Koukol was a grotesque Hunchback servant, Boris was a really bad version of Riff-Raff. I can't find anything good to say about this show, not even the way Steinman's music came across because it was amplified FAR too loud. It was deafening

In "Angels Arise", the two girls are constantly upstaging Sarah, distracting the audiences' attention by flicking their hands around in the air. All we're concerned about are the girls mucking around, instead of the haunting plea of "Angels Arise" which really is a prayer (alas, this piece of music was nicked from the "Batman" musical, where it truly works wonders)

Too many people blame Crawford for this misfire, but the reality is... IMO... everything bad that could happen in a show happened here, it just all came together... Rancido & Carrappa weren't capable of dealing with this material, so they worked with experience and made a stupid comedy that's not supposed to happen in a gothic piece. It was just, bleeehhh

The sooner this one's forgotten, the better. TANZ has done phenomenally well in Vienna, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Warsaw, Tokyo and now Berlin, Budapest and (rumoured) the U.K. (in a proper complete English translation) and the motion picture directed by Polanski.

Polanski's people did gethim a copy of this show, in some form, and he HATED it. He refuses to EVER mention it

[Trina55]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 5:32am

To counter the "I'm glad I didn't see it" and "there's nothing good about it" I will say one thing - I have never laughed so hard at a show in my entire life. AT is the operative word here, but it was totally worth the 20 bucks i spent for my student rush ticket just to laugh that hard. And it continues to be fun to tell other people about it. (Garlic! Garlic! The secret to staying young. Garlic! Garlic! It's why we're so well hung.)

I'm just sayin'

[exedore]

Posted: 12/14/06 at 7:10am

"(Garlic! Garlic! The secret to staying young. Garlic! Garlic! It's why we're so well hung.)"

Actually, that's not too far off from the original German...