Deena Jones the "Dreamgirls" Film Lead?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:05pm

It certainly looks to me like they're going to throw equal footing to Beyonce's character in this if they're going so far as to "add" a scene showcasing her character.


Lithgow goes Motown

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:12pm

Isn't Deena always the lead? Wasn't Holliday becoming the overnight star as Effie more the equivilent of Audra McDonald stealing the show as Carrie Pipperidge in CAROUSEL?

[children&art]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:14pm

yes MB you are right.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:16pm

Really? I thought the story was of Effie being replaced. And I guess it's all a matter of emPHAsis but, certainly, Effie's the character from the show everyone knows and pretty much identifies as the lead of the story.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:20pm

"Wasn't Holliday becoming the overnight star as Effie more the equivilent of Audra McDonald stealing the show as Carrie Pipperidge in CAROUSEL"

I think it was more that Deena and Effie were both the leads... Effie has the first act finale and the most powerhouse moment in Act II... so... it think it's less like Audra McDonald walked away with the show... and more like it was designed that way. The show is WRITTEN so Effie walks away with the show.

kmc

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:21pm

Really, Bway? I never got that. And over the years as they've been developing the film, it seems the emphasis has always been on attaching a name - be it Whitney Houston or Beyonce or Lauren Hill as Deena. I think it was always a given Effie would go to a relative unknown, so I guess I assumed for a film anyway, that Effie would definitely be the supporting lead.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:27pm

You could definitely be right. Having only seen a *whisperbootleg* of the original, I couldn't say with any certainty. And, certainly, they'd go with a big-name star as Deena if only because, frankly, there's not a very "Holliday"-like star singer out there right now and god knows how America loves an unknown stepping in somewhere and stealing our hearts (much like the supposed Hairspray film seeking a chipper little unknown Tracy).
And, certainly, star power really shouldn't be the single defining reason to call a role a lead now, should it? Certainly the Deena character is directly alluding to Diana Ross, so it just made sense to me the famous name would play Deena, nothing more.

[andyf]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:36pm

Everyone hates you.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:46pm

No, Andyf, only you do, and I keep telling you I will NOT marry you and I will NOT answer the phone when all you do is play-Effie's-big-number-that-closes-Act-1-but-is-really-a-supporting-song "And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going."
Just go already.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:46pm

The film script for DREAMGIRLS is I take it pretty different than the stage production - supposedly they are walking a much finer line making the Dreams a more thinly veiled version of Supremes - adding a young Michael Jackson type character, etc. So in that sense it would make sense that the Diana Ross-esque role would be the lead.

I just hope they have some scenes of Diana, er I mean Deena freaking out and doing coke off the floor and beating her maid with a can of Dutch Girl cleanser.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:48pm

We can only PRAY for realism like that, MB. And I keep wondering if Kringas will pop in and give us some more history of the original Supremes lead singer (whose name I've forgotten, but the story is complete Deena/Effie).

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:53pm

Maybe Deena will get a reprise of "I'm Telling You, I'm not Going" as they fly her ass out of the superbowl half time show on a helicopter, after she freaks out when her mic zaps her because she insists on singing live in the pouring rain.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 12:56pm

Using the Supremes as a reference, I think some people felt that Flo Ballard's story was never told. The idea of a singing group that started out as friends, but one being pushed out of the way in favor of a budding star.

To me, it seemed that Dreamgirls was trying to comment on that. But rather than showing the decline of Flo, they chose to put a positive spin and redeem the character.

As movies often do, this one may rearrange the concept to make the Deena character more important.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 1:00pm

I never thought I'd be saying thanks to Gotham, but thanks. I couldn't remember Flo Ballard's name.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 1:33pm

As I remember, they knew they were telling a Supreme's like story, but kept saying at the time "it's not about the Supremes" and it was during the workshop that Effie's part went beyond the end of act one. Her story was over until Holliday proved such a force that they included the rest of her story, thereby cutting much of Michelle's story.

This may be simple legend, but I remember Terry Burrell interviewing that "that's showbiz" over the downsizing of her role.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 1:34pm

Well, certainly, having made Effie a sympathetic character (or rather, redeeming her) is far more interesting and personal, I think.

ETA: and it certainly helps distance themselves from the retelling of the Supremes' rise and fall.
Updated On: 4/7/06 at 01:34 PM

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 1:43pm

I think in the film, they can expand Deena's character and not lose Effie's full story. Alot more can be explored on film in two hours than on stage...

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 2:30pm

Doodle, I think you mean Debbie Burrell, Terry's older sister, who created the role of Michelle. Terry didn't join the production until about a year into the initial run after Ralph left and Debbie took over as Deena (incidentally, as a side note, Terry is in the ensemble of the current revival of Threepenny Opera).

Bennett initially saw Effie as a one act role and had no intention of bringing he back in Act Two, but it became clear in the workshops that Holliday's presence would be so commanding and endearing to the audience and truly the heart of the show that show wouldn't work if she wasn't featured prominently in Act II (the book was completely rewritten after Eyen and Krieger came up with "And I Am Telling You" which made Bennett realize that Effie's was the main story the audience would care about, so they refocused the entire show around her).

In performance, there's absolutely no doubt that Effie is the primary lead and Deena and Curtis are the secondary leads -- it's just written that way with her moments having the greatest impact (there are no throway Effie moments, while there are a couple for Deena). Effie even has the most lines and solo vocal passages of any character in the show and even in the some of the group scenes ("Heavy"; "It's All Over") it's written and staged so that Effie will dominate the others in the scene and will be the main center of the action.

In all the times I saw the show, I never saw a truly memorable Deena. Anybody cute can play it. You don't need much of a voice and the acting scenes aren't particularly challenging for the most part. The show and the role isn't set up for Deena to be the one who shines -- she just doesn't have any moments that make her really standout like Effie. Whereas, every Effie I saw is indelibly burned into my memory -- every moment, every gesture, every note. Even the mediocre ones STILL got a standing ovation during "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" -- Bennett set it up that way. Effie's the star and you can feel her presence even when she's not on stage.

Now, the film is a whole other situation. Ever since the notion of a Dreamgirls movie has been kicked around (going back to the mid 80s) the emphasis has always been on what glamorous black singing star would be tapped to play Deena? From Whitney to Janet Jackson to Lauryn Hill it was always clear that the screenplay was going to put more emphasis on the Deena character than the Effie character (who, especially, after Holliday got too old for the part, was clearly going to be an unknown without any pull agent-wise). So it's no surprise that a major superstar like Beyonce is going to be pushed marketing-wise (and awards-wise) for the film. It's just basic Hollywood economics and since she (and Foxx and Murphy) are the "names" who are going to sell the tickets and attact the press coverage, it makes sense to emphasize them prior to the film's actual release.

Now, it'll be interesting to see what the buzz for Hudson is after people start screening the actual completed film later this year. I don't know how much Condon has cut from Effie's role and how much he's beefed up Deena, but I wouldn't be surprised (if Hudson gives at least a semi-solid performance) that people will go into the film talking about Beyonce and Foxx etc..... and they exit talking about Hudson (before the Broadway show opened, everyone was excitedly talking about the new "Bennett project" -- the day after all the news and focus was talking about "a star is born" and Jennifer Holliday was the only thing anyone cared about, not Bennett). Unless there's been a truly radical top-to-bottom rewrite, Effie is still by far the most interesting character in the piece and has the best and most exciting material and adding a few filler songs for Beyonce to give her more screen time won't change that.

It's too early to talk Oscars, but for the life of me, I don't see how anyone could win any awards with the part of Deena -- there just isn't enough to her for that (though I'm sure Condon has added some depth to her). Effie should still be the standout regardless of anything and if Hudson really nails it, I could see an Oscar nod going in her direction.

Updated On: 4/8/06 at 02:30 PM

[Princeton78]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 2:34pm

Yeah, and watch Beyonce get to perform "And I am Telling You..." on the Oscar telecast.
*Grumble*

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 2:38pm

Dagnabbit! Those Burrell girls! 50-50 and I blew it!

Margo, I love how much you love this show and the part of Effie.

For me, Sheryl Lee Ralph did make a big impression as the original Deena, tho (her entrance into the dressing room before AINTING is one of my favorites) as did Loretta Devine. Noone dominated the stage like Effie in any production I saw, but I do think it is tough to be noticed when Holliday is around, so I give them alot of credit. Other productions, however, were as you describe. Deena's role is dwarfed by a stronger Effie.

[Princeton78]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 2:46pm

Question...did/does Effie always take the final bow?

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 2:52pm

My guess is that ever since Holliday sang "And I'm Telling You..." Effie has had the final bow.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 2:54pm

Ralph was very good -- definitive in many ways -- and acted it very well. Linda Lelaini Brown was also good. It's just hard to make a GREAT impression as Deena. Which makes sense. Bennett needed her to be a sort of sweet, refined porcelain doll, just to contrast with the others. She shows a bit more spirit as the evening progresses and she stands up to Curtis finally, but hers is still the secondary story. Even Jimmy Early and Lorrell (especially in the hands of a Loretta Devine or Arnetia Walker) tend to make more of an impact -- even though their roles are smaller, they are both given opportunities to really show-off (I once saw Devine -- after Holliday left -- bring the house down and almost stop the show with "Ain't No Party"; it was so electrifying there was a slight pause before going into the Quintet because the audience was whooping and cheering so much).

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 2:54pm

Yep, Effie has the final bow. She even gets a real diva entrance. The entire cast is already out there and lined up and usually there's a pause of a few seconds and then Effie generally slowly saunters outs, plants herself centerstage, bows (or even opera singer diva curtsies) and then goes back to join the rest of the cast for a company bow.

Updated On: 4/7/06 at 02:54 PM

[Princeton78]

Posted: 4/7/06 at 3:03pm

From what I recall of the Atlanta/Frenchie Davis production,
The cast was out there, the smaller parts bowed, and left,
the men bowed, and left,
the dreams, bowed and left and Effie was alone on the stage to take the final bow as the curtain fell. When it rose again, the whole cast bowed.