Effie and CC's Parentage

I was trying to figure out which thread to put this in and I couldn't, so I figured I'd start my own. I guess this is semi-spoilerish, so don't read on if you aren't familiar with the story.

For those who have seen the show and the movie Dreamgirls, does anyone else find it problematic that Effie and CC had a father (I'm assuming it was their father) who was so prevalent in the film? I always kind of assumed it was just the two of them and CC's lines in "Family" seem to support that.

Doesn't it also seem odd that with CC and Effie having family that the both speak to, it never got back to Curtis that he had a child? If CC and Effie have a father they are both in touch with, wouldn't CC know she had had a kid? Despite their differences, wouldn't CC have gotten that information back to Curtis, or at the very least, Michelle?

Is this an inconstancy or am I missing something?

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Updated On: 12/27/06 at 03:00 PM

I don't think it's an inconsistency. I think CC realized that if Effie had wanted Curtis to know, she would have told him earlier on, and I think as her brother he just respected that decision. He may have told Michelle, but she probably kept it between the two of them out of respect for him.
It also could have been that CC didn't really have much contact with their father until that one scene when he's at his apartment looking for Effie.

Yes, but I was also venturing the idea that he didn't really have that much contact with him.
In the case that he DID, like I said, I think it was out of respect for Effie that he didn't tell anyone.

If he even cared about Effie he wouldn't have left with her. That's your sister and you don't do things like that with family.
He only cared about money that's why he stayed and to get his name out there.

Just think if the father had not been there then CC wouldn't know where to send the money to so what if the father passed away do you think Effie would write CC seeing to how stubborn she was?

Like he said in the movie, he was very young and made bad decisions. I think he felt like it was right to side with the others in letting Effie go, due to his own naivete and other people (i.e. Curtis) whispering in his ear. They were all fed up with her attitude, even Deena and Lorrel, who were like her sisters, and didn't want to deal with her anymore. Regardless, it was a selfish decision not to support Effie when Curtis fires her, but when you're young and there are people making you believe they know more than you do and are telling you things and on top of that you have your own ambitions in mind, you make bad descisions. CC probbaly realized that not too much later, and didn't want to make matters worse by telling Curtis something Effie very obviously didn't want him to know.

Hm, I don't know. That's just the way it came across to me. To me, it was just very obvious from the way thngs ended with Effie and Curtis that she wouldn't want anything to do with Curtis anymore, and CC, being a pretty nice guy who still has love for his sister (him sending her money made it pretty clear that he still wantedto look out for her) and maybe wanting to make things right between them, wouldn't betray her that way.

Updated On: 12/27/06 at 03:58 PM

After all, Diana Ross had Rhonda as a love child with Berry Gordy and didn't acknowledge it until she went on Oprah to promote Secrets of a Sparrow, her tell-nothing autobiography.

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No they don't. CC says he'll go to jail if he has to, but as the lawyers are leaving they remind Curtis that he'll end up in jail if negotiations fail. That segues into Curtis announcing the break-up of The Dreams and Effie's return to the charts with "One Night Only." The script never says he goes to jail.

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Updated On: 12/27/06 at 05:01 PM

There are alot of things in the movie that don't make the story better. Deena's mom being alive doesn't add up to much of anything. I vaguely recall but was Deena the one to bust Curtis in the play? And why wasn't it mentioned that Effie's version of "One Night Only" went to #1? Deena the light-voiced singer suddenly belting on "Listen" doesn't make much sense either. And Lorrell's solo could have definitely been included in the film. Considering most of the songs took place in a club or on a stage, she could have sung it in a club right after the dressing room scene with Jimmy.

They never really say that Deena is a "light-voiced" singer, as you call it, silent, its just said that she can't sing like Effie can, which is very true. Deena has more of a pop sound, as opposed to Effie's sound, which is exactly what "Listen" is. I think it fit perfectly.

And I disagree that Lorrell needed her own solo - that isn't her character. Throughout the entire film, she's just part of the group - why would she suddenly have her own solo number? The only time it would be appropriate would be at some type of funeral, which would only have lengthened the film. Not necessary.

ETA: It would have most certainly been excellent to hear Anika have her moment in the sun, but it wouldn't have made sense.

Updated On: 12/27/06 at 08:49 PM

Listen was just a song that Deena records so it didnt mean anything and therefore it was pointless because of the way Bill wrote it in the movie.

And does anyone really believe Curtis would let her sing a song she wrote. I doubt he would have unless it was a daydream of what Deena really wanted to sing.

GhettoBwy-Does a song HAVE to be sung in a scene in order for it to have purpose? The whole point of the film version of Cabaret was that though the musical numbers weren't in the scenes, they were somewhat commenting on what was happening. Many numbers in Dreamgirls that are meant to be performance numbers are commenting on a character's emotional status or plot wise what is happening in the film. And plus, nowhere does it say that Deena wrote "Listen". And from looking at Jaime Foxx's facial expression, you could tell that Deena gave it more soul than he expected/wanted her to.

It's little moments like that, that you have to look for to understand certain plot points. Many crucial moments in the film happen in a few seconds and without words spoken. An example of this is when they are singing "I Want You Baby" at Miami, and Lorrell and Effie are cracking on stage while Jimmy breaks loose. While Curtis notices that Deena is staying completely calm and poised and has many of the white males in the club looking at her lustfully. This moment happens in about 5 seconds, and yet you can tell what Curtis is going to do with the Dreamettes from there.

And okay, if Lorrell can't have her own number, I would've AT LEAST wanted to see Lorrell to go to the morgue to see Jimmy one last time and have Melba prevent her from seeing him. It's in the novelization and I think it was based on a deleted scene in the film. It would clarify the whole "She won't let me see him, Deena" line to audiences and it would've given me an opportunity to see Anika on screen more. She nearly stole the movie for me.

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Although I do think that "Listen" adds tremendous depth to Deena, I'm not so sure it would have been added to the film if a singing superstar like Beyonce wasn't playing the role, which is exactly why I didn't like it.

Is "Listen" a great song? Yes. Does it do great things for Deena's arc and show off Beyonce's tremendous talent? Yes, but that doesn't make it a right fit within the context of the film.

While I think it is great to have a song where Deena can showcase her emotions and grow as a character, the manner in which the song is sung/performed is what bothered me. Those same emotions could have been expressed in a much more muted and repressed tone that would have fit leagues better with the way we are told the character is the entire story. Deena is supposed to be someone with a hollow, personality-less sound, yet she comes out of nowhere with a killer belt full of fire and passion?

There is no way to justify the character having that type of voice and never using it, because if she had that instrument, she would never be considered significantly less talented than Effie. That is what I think people forget. Deena isn't supposed to just be not as good as Effie.. she is supposed to be NOTICEABLY beneath her.

Deena's backstory isn't the only part of the film that makes the song illogical. Curtis continuously harps on wanting a new, more disco-like sound and even goes as far as to say "message" songs are dead, yet he lets Deena record just that in "Listen"?

Let's look at the source material, even. Does Diana Ross have a pretty, mellow sound? Yes, but could she blow the roof off the place like Florence Ballard could? Absolutely not.

All of these things just make the way "Listen" was done, to me, nothing more than a cheap attempt to give Beyonce her own powerhouse ballad of the likes of "And I Am Telling You."

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Updated On: 12/28/06 at 11:14 PM