Finding Neverland Really Struggling- Page 2

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 2:08pm

nsguy45 said: "Enjoyed it in Cambridge with Jeremy Jordan and Michael McGrath."

As did I! I thought it was enchanting. I haven't bothered to return given the word of mouth that's surrounded the Broadway production. I wonder what was lost in the transfer given that I remember many other people on here enjoyed it immensely in Cambridge as well.

 

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 2:16pm

trpguyy said: "The entire concept of musical theater is kind of ridiculous when you think about it, doesn't matter how serious or not the subject matter is."

In my mind, thinking in terms of "how serious" the subject matter is evades what makes musical theater so special in the first place and not at all ridiculous. Warren Carlyle expressed my thoughts on that topic more concisely and clearly than I ever could when he said, "When you can no longer speak, you sing; when you can no longer sing, you dance." 

 

Updated On: 5/18/16 at 02:16 PM

[_IrisTInkerbell]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 2:44pm

Liza's Headband said: "
It's practically impossible for them to get from 60% to 100% recoupment between now and their scheduled closing. Sorry."

I didn't say between now and closing. I was referring to upcoming touring and international productions, that will also bring in money for the show. And as far as I know, investors of the Broadway run will also make money back from profits of other productions as well as from licencing ect ect. I do think this will have a life post Bway closing.

Updated On: 5/18/16 at 02:44 PM

[trpguyy]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 3:29pm

Cupid Boy2 said: "In my mind, thinking in terms of "how serious" the subject matter is evades what makes musical theater so special in the first place and not at all ridiculous. Warren Carlyle expressed my thoughts on that topic more concisely and clearly than I ever could when he said, "When you can no longer speak, you sing; when you can no longer sing, you dance." 

I'm well aware of this quote, but this is not actually the case in most musicals  

 

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 3:31pm

Well, your initial post did not reference most musicals but rather musical theatre itself. 

[trpguyy]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 3:36pm

Cupid Boy2 said: "Well, your initial post did not reference most musicals but rather musical theatre itself. "

Fair enough, I should rephrase. Musicals, in practice, are often whimsical escapes from reality. 

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 3:38pm

trpguyy said: "Cupid Boy2 said: "Well, your initial post did not reference most musicals but rather musical theatre itself. "

Fair enough, I should rephrase. Musicals, in practice, are often whimsical escapes from reality."

Didn't mean to nitpick, but that I can get on board with. :)

 

[JM226]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 3:54pm

_IrisTInkerbell said: "Liza's Headband said: "
It's practically impossible for them to get from 60% to 100% recoupment between now and their scheduled closing. Sorry."

I didn't say between now and closing. I was referring to upcoming touring and international productions, that will also bring in money for the show. And as far as I know, investors of the Broadway run will also make money back from profits of other productions as well as from licencing ect ect. I do think this will have a life post Bway closing.

 

"

 

hi. there is no way to know that. we don't have access to their working agreements or royalty contracts. those opportunities are usually packaged separately ---- not together.  the dual UK/USA productions being an exception. 

[Sunny11]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 5:57pm

Just for academic purposes how long does it typically take for a musical mounted at about 15 million to recoupe? 

For it to have paid back 60% at the one year mark sounds pretty good to me. If they had maintained the grosses they had in Autumn ( 700k - 900k ish) untill now and beyond they probably would have recouped by the end of this year. 

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 7:07pm

Lucked out on the tickets today. Sat Row K Center Orchestra 3 & 4 off the aisle. Honestly, do not get the vitriol thrown at the show. Was it the best we ever saw? No but saying that it was a very entertaining piece of theater..Boe was out but his understudy was quite good. The show started slowly and really hit its stride with the rousing Act 1 finale. The cast gave it there all and it did what it was supposed to do and that was entertain. We have seen much worse shows praised to the skies. Glad we saw it before it left

 

There was one effect that really had me wondering how. It was during the one scene at night and the song Sylvia's Lullabye with the  houses in the background. The clouds were moving by and they used to do this in some movie theaters in the 20's & 30's with a machine called a brenograph.  but the problem is they stopped making them years ago so I am wondering how they did it.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 7:18pm

Probably rear projections. My Guess.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 11:33pm

OK  This would mean they were really ahead of their time when they did this back than.

[bfreak]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 11:40pm

So glad you enjoyed it! Saw it in January with Morrison and Grammer and also thought it was an enjoyable and entertaining show. It seems like Alfie Boe has been out a lot lately according to instagram posts. How was Marc Kudisch, Roxy? I haven't heard any reports on him and I'm curious. I know you mentioned your wife doesn't like Kelsey, but I really liked his performance and it really made me enjoy those characters the most in the show! So interested to see how one of his replacements are doing.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 11:48pm

Kudisch was great. It was like he was born to play the part.

Updated On: 5/19/16 at 11:48 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 11:52pm

trpguyy said: "Cupid Boy2 said: "In my mind, thinking in terms of "how serious" the subject matter is evades what makes musical theater so special in the first place and not at all ridiculous. Warren Carlyle expressed my thoughts on that topic more concisely and clearly than I ever could when he said, "When you can no longer speak, you sing; when you can no longer sing, you dance." 

I'm well aware of this quote, but this is not actually the case in most musicals  

 

 

"

Not anymore, perhaps, but it was the underpinning of the Rodgers & Hammerstein style of musicals. One of the best examples is the "Shall We Dance?" scene in THE KING AND I. (BTW, if the Warren Carlile in question is the director/choreographer, the quotation predates him by many decades.)

Sondheim and Prince (and others) replaced the R&H style with the idea that content should dictate form, and their musicals as well as subsequent ones use programmatic musical material, songs that comment on the action, etc. and so forth, as the telling of the story and theme dictates.

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 12:33am

Thank you for the insight, GavestonPS. The form really is fascinating to deconstruct when its in the hands of artists as masterful as the ones you mentioned. I'm reading Jack Viertel's "The Secret Life of the American Musical" at the moment, and I'm almost certain he credited Carlyle with that quote in his book, which is why it was particularly vivid in my mind. I appreciate knowing now, though, that he was not the first to say it.

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 1:16am

Mr Roxy said: "Kurdish was great. It was like he was born to play the part.

"

He plays it a lot more low key than Kelsey Grammar or any of the previous actors in the role(s) - Anthony Warlow, Terrance Mann or either of the two understudies in the part. I think to some degree that plays a part in the slow start to the show that you expressed in your original post. The others were much more outgoing and lively - and they seem to grab the audience sooner.  I don't really mean it as a criticism - it's just a slightly different style than all of the others that works well in other ways.

I also love Kevin Kern as Barrie...and yes he has had the opportunity to go on frequently as of late. But again, I think each of the 4 Barries in NY (Morrison, Yasbeck, Kern and Boe) has brought his own specialty to the part and makes it work for them.

I am glad you and your wife had a good time.  I agree the hatred directed to this show as a whole is a little overboard to my taste...but to each his own.

[devonian.t]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 2:20am

Isn't 'hatred' rather a strong term?

Sure, people have said they dislike the show and some have even said they hope it closes/ are glad it's closing, but it's not like people have said the theatre deserves to burn down or that the creatives should be summarily executed.

The show may have fallen prey to some showbiz politics round here, too, but maybe some of that is bad karma?  

Ultimately  I think the show is like candy floss and some people just don't  have a taste for that.

[_IrisTInkerbell]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 3:59am

Cupid Boy2 said: "Thank you for the insight, GavestonPS. The form really is fascinating to deconstruct when its in the hands of artists as masterful as the ones you mentioned. I'm reading Jack Viertel's "The Secret Life of the American Musical" at the moment, and I'm almost certain he credited Carlyle with that quote in his book, which is why it was particularly vivid in my mind. I appreciate knowing now, though, that he was not the first to say it.

"

Kristin Chenoweth has also been saying that for years, in one way or another, even if perhaps not in quite such an postcard-quote form. "We sing because we can't speak anymore" - and then often she adds that dance is another extension of that. 

I could see that being something thought/talked about in musical theater classes.

[Back Row]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 7:21am

It is obvious that some people hate the show for reasons of their own. I wasn't one of them, but I saw it in Cambridge. I do think that the mercenary approach that Weinstein took in producing the show created a negative mojo that the Broadway production could never overcome. The Broadway professionals that Weinstein pushed aside in his relentless pursuit of commercial nirvana are not without their own fan bases, and the more people he pushed aside, the tougher it got to sell the show to a Broadway community that lived outside the targeted TV celebrity worshipping base. I doubt that there are many people taking pleasure from the prospect of a talented cast losing their jobs as the grosses start to hover below the break even point, but I think that there is some satisfaction that Weinstein's scorched earth methods appear to have failed.

[Sunny11]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 7:37am

Actually, I think that Weinstein should have been more hard headedly commercial  and hired more Hollywood/ pop stars as replacements for Barrie and Hook.  The grosses fell below the break even point after the originals left. If they had gone the serial " stunt cast" path they may well have kept the show going until they recouped.

Updated On: 5/19/16 at 07:37 AM

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 7:38am

"Sure, people have said they dislike the show and some have even said they hope it closes/ are glad it's closing, but it's not like people have said the theatre deserves to burn down or that the creatives should be summarily executed."

Does one  have to hope a theatre burns down or that creatives be executed to qualify as hating a show? It seems to me that wishing for a show to close more than suffices in that regard. There has indeed been hatred expressed for this show, and malice as well. All of it unjustified.

I was listening to the score again, and it gets more appealing with each listening. It certainly is far superior to this season's greatest musical of all time.

Updated On: 5/22/16 at 07:38 AM

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 7:46am

"Sondheim and Prince (and others) replaced the R&H style with the idea that content should dictate form, and their musicals as well as subsequent ones use programmatic musical material, songs that comment on the action, etc. and so forth, as the telling of the story and theme dictates."

 

How recondite. Simply stated, they went and mucked everything up.

Updated On: 5/19/16 at 07:46 AM

[devonian.t]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 7:48am

Does expressing a dislike for a show mean you "hate" it?

I reserve that term for a far stronger feeling and much worthier targets.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 7:50am

"Does expressing a dislike for a show mean you "hate" it?"

 

No, but expressing hate for a show does.