Flop Musicals -- Why the fascination?- Page 2

[halyiaganitefiz]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 3:38pm

relax, Rath... Jason's post was a line from "Avenue Q".

i would agree that flops are clearly an integral part of history, and are entirely valid discussion subjects. saying that it's stupid to discuss flops is like saying it's stupid to discuss battles we lost in past wars. they happened for a reason. it's just that some people enjoy discussing them and some people don't. the thing is, history class doesn't require that you LIKE debating over the Confederacy losing the Civil War, it just requires that you acknowledge it. likewise, i think that it's a reasonable request to have fans/Broadway lovers/theater geeks/thespians/whatever else you want to call them acknowledge that flops weren't just a concept, they weren't just some random idea. they were shows. they were projects that people poured their money, time, effort, hearts and souls into, and whether or not you consider that acceptable or respectable or not is not the issue.

if it happened, it happened, and some people enjoy being historians and discussing those projects that happened without much success. i don't really understand why you can't step back and respect someone's right to do that, especially on a public message board.

i apologize if i have made more confusion or have insulted anyone, and i would personally like to add that "Chess" is one of my favorite shows of all time, regardless of the fact that it only ran 68 performances on Broadway. thank you.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 3:40pm

Oh sorry.

[Plum]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 3:43pm

Ha ha!

/ Nelson Muntz

[halyiaganitefiz]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 3:43pm

not a problem.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 3:52pm

If we DIDN'T discuss flops the conversation around here would be quite dull :0)

The most fascinating kind of flop is the kind that was "poorly executed" -because then there is a possibility for the show to be redone and to succeed. And shows that ARE well done can even still flop in the box office, perhaps because the advertising campaign is poor or there are no stars attached to the project. But there can still be value in a show like that artistically.

So yeah. Shh. Your hostile feelings toward flop discussions are silly. I don't even think Angels in America made its money back on Broadway.

[halyiaganitefiz]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 3:55pm

agreed, pinguin.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 4:34pm

Rathnait -- how did you get Broadway Legend status and NOT know that???

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 7/3/05 at 11:20pm

"...just because something is a flop, it doesn't mean that it's BAD. Most of Sondheim's shows have been considered flops....."

Sondheim has had some (financial) hits as well: WSS, GYSPY, FORUM, COMPANY, NIGHT MUSIC, SWEENEY, SUNDAY, & INTO THE WOODS.
(Balanced by the financial flops of WHISTLE, DO I HEAR A WALTZ, FOLLIES, PACIFIC OVERTURES, MERRILY and PASSION.)

However aside for the box-office terms (HITS & FLOPS) there are also successes and failures. Few of these shows can be considered out-and-out failures. Sometimes they attempted beautiful new ideas in terms of music theatre. They may not have alwasy woked 100% but even a show like BOUNCE has many segments that work far better and more interesingly than much of what passes for theatre on Broadway these days.

As for the fascination with flops, there are shows that didn't quite make it but maybe deserve a second chance, and others that will never work on stage but leave behind wonderful OCR's which further fuels interest. MACK AND MABEL may never work on stage but what a great cast album it left! Same thing for DEAR WORLD - a great score married to the wrong source.

Then there are the "fun" flops, silly ideas that no one really thought would work but at least they provide a laugh or too: Check out WHOOOP-UP and THE HAPPIEST GIRL IN THE WORLD.

[Demitri2]

Posted: 7/4/05 at 4:29am

I've always loved flop shows and even as a child I would ask my parents to take me to see the losers over the established hits. Nope....never saw the original "Fiddler", "Hello Dolly" or "Man of LaMancha" but instead am grateful I saw "Bajour" (Chita), "Flora" (Liza), "The Apple Tree" (Barbara Harris), "High Spirits" (Tammy Grimes and Beatrice Lillie), "Illya Darling" (Melina Mercouri), "Henry Sweet Henry", "Fade Out-Fade In" (Carol Burnett) and "She Loves Me" (Barbara Cook). These shows technically were ALL flops since they never recouped their investment yet to me they were just as enjoyable if not more so than the hits of that time. A flop show holds a fascination to many of us and whenever I meet a theater goer who has seen a musical that closed after opening night or a show I've heard of that closed on the road, I'm full of questions. So although the original poster finds the subject of flops "annoying", I for one feel totally opposite. As they say "to each his own" or better yet in this case...if you're totally annoyed by the post subject matter....don't read it.

[Forester]

Posted: 7/4/05 at 5:19am

Just like one can learn from success, one can also learn what not to do by studying failed musicals.

[Mr. TN]

Posted: 7/4/05 at 10:59am

One of my professors a long time ago said: "It is like the fascination of people with car accidents or fires. Where fire engines or police cars go so do crowds of people waiting to see what happened." Ok take television. What is the first thing that usually is reported on the news. Fires, accidents, shootings, lawsuits, murders, rapes, and all sorts of crimes. It is only halfway into the newscast that the "good" news is presented. The human race in general has a fascination with things that go wrong. Not just musicals. Look at William Hung. He might have been the worst American Idol contestant yet he has a hit CD. I have been doing music all of my life and do not have a CD that sells as well. My point is that it is natural to discuss unique events in theatre such as flops. It is a place where the few who saw the show can talk and discuss the unique experience they had with that show. And let me tell you first hand, if you ever see a major turkey (and I use that word instead of the box office term flop) you will know the feeling that you were part of something special. I am so glad I have seen many shows that were deemed terrible. Actually more glad than when I have seen hit shows because, take Wicked for example, 15,000 people see the show a week for nearly two years now. While with a show like Amour, only a few thousand saw it in a handful of performances.