Frank Rich: Gay Kiss: Business as Usual - New York Times — Page 2
#27
Posted: 6/23/03 at 9:48am
>2.) Eminem only shared the stage with Elton after widespread .
>protests and boycotts of his music. Afterwards. Eminem did an >interview were he started that he had no clue Elton was gay
>(yeah right) and that if he knew, he wouldn't have done it.
I think the question should be; why would Elton John share the stage with a misanthrope like Eminem?
>protests and boycotts of his music. Afterwards. Eminem did an >interview were he started that he had no clue Elton was gay
>(yeah right) and that if he knew, he wouldn't have done it.
I think the question should be; why would Elton John share the stage with a misanthrope like Eminem?
#28
Posted: 6/23/03 at 9:49am
That has always been my question. What was in it for Elton??
#29
Posted: 6/23/03 at 10:48am
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Eminem knew Elton was gay. Elton said he wouldn't have done it if he thought that Eminem was truly homophobic. Maybe Elton did it to gain publicity, but I think that he like other artists see Eminem in a different light--I myself see Eminem's music in a much more satirical light. Regardless, I am an artist first, a gay man second. I care more about artistry than politics. Granted, one could wax eloquent whether Eminem is an artist. But, I agree that he is.
#30
Posted: 6/23/03 at 10:54am
Eminem CLAIMS he didn't know that Elton was gay. Apparently Eminem lives under a rock???
#31
Posted: 6/23/03 at 7:30pm
The thought of being anywhere near Dubya or (gasp!!!) touching him, gives me the creeps....really crawly creeps. That smirk of his nearly drives me to violence. The final straw on top of his politics.
#32
Posted: 6/23/03 at 7:35pm
We are so worried about people attacking our president that we surround him/it with secret service offials who are there to stop an outside threat. the real threat to 'Dumbassya' would be if he fried to eat a pretzel while riding a scooter.
We have a moronic illegitimate rigcht wing fundamentalist president in office. He needs to go.
We does Bush and his creeps have an issue with so called liberals??? If you look at history, those so called liberals have done the most good in this sountry. Liberals pushed for the freedom of slaves, conservatives tried to stop it. Liberals pushed for medicare, conservatives opposed it. Liberals pushed for the civil rights act, conservatives tried to stop it.
Our current conservative 'leaders' reinstated a huge debt.. before 9/11, so don't pull that crap that 9/11 caused it, issolated us from many of out closest allies ( sometimes their govt, sometimes their citizens, sometimes both), violated and discarded many, if not all, major treaties created over the last two years, and run our econemy into the ground.
We have a moronic illegitimate rigcht wing fundamentalist president in office. He needs to go.
We does Bush and his creeps have an issue with so called liberals??? If you look at history, those so called liberals have done the most good in this sountry. Liberals pushed for the freedom of slaves, conservatives tried to stop it. Liberals pushed for medicare, conservatives opposed it. Liberals pushed for the civil rights act, conservatives tried to stop it.
Our current conservative 'leaders' reinstated a huge debt.. before 9/11, so don't pull that crap that 9/11 caused it, issolated us from many of out closest allies ( sometimes their govt, sometimes their citizens, sometimes both), violated and discarded many, if not all, major treaties created over the last two years, and run our econemy into the ground.
Updated On: 6/23/03 at 07:35 PM
#33
Posted: 6/23/03 at 7:48pm
>We does Bush and his creeps have an issue with so called liberals??? If you look at history, those so called liberals have done the most good in this sountry. Liberals pushed for the freedom of slaves, conservatives tried to stop it. Liberals pushed for medicare, conservatives opposed it. Liberals pushed for the civil rights act, conservatives tried to stop it. <
I think that the group of conservatives you speak of STILL think all those things were a bad idea.
The Conservatives have been very successful in turning "liberal" into a dirty word, though. They have maybe half a dozen labels that they pull out and apply to anyone who disagrees with them. "Oh, that's a LIBERAL saying that, he's not PATRIOTIC."
In my view, seeing the country as whole and caring for the entire nation's well-being is the more patriotic approach.
Bush and his cronies are working on turning this country into a plutocracy...when only the rich and connected have any power to lead, suggest, or change. It is quite frightening to me.
I think that the group of conservatives you speak of STILL think all those things were a bad idea.
The Conservatives have been very successful in turning "liberal" into a dirty word, though. They have maybe half a dozen labels that they pull out and apply to anyone who disagrees with them. "Oh, that's a LIBERAL saying that, he's not PATRIOTIC."
In my view, seeing the country as whole and caring for the entire nation's well-being is the more patriotic approach.
Bush and his cronies are working on turning this country into a plutocracy...when only the rich and connected have any power to lead, suggest, or change. It is quite frightening to me.
#34
Posted: 6/23/03 at 8:09pm
"Bush and his cronies are working on turning this country into a plutocracy...when only the rich and connected have any power to lead, suggest, or change. It is quite frightening to me."
Don't forget incorporating the Baptist religion into government. They hold 'volluntary' bible study sessions every day. They can't force people to attend, but several White House workers have stated, namelessly, in newspapers that they know if they don't attend that their jobs will be endangered.
Do you also notice how the Bush-ites seem to get a free pass from the madia on hard hitting issues??
Don't forget incorporating the Baptist religion into government. They hold 'volluntary' bible study sessions every day. They can't force people to attend, but several White House workers have stated, namelessly, in newspapers that they know if they don't attend that their jobs will be endangered.
Do you also notice how the Bush-ites seem to get a free pass from the madia on hard hitting issues??
#35
Posted: 6/24/03 at 5:27am
I found this post on another mssg board. I thought it was kind of funny. It was in response to an article aying how accepted gay men and women are in society and how we have beaten all the social barriers and are now treated just like everyone else::
"Gays have won? Not really. Christian Conservatives are losing again. They have been on the losing side of every social progression in American history: the fight to end slavery, the fight against women's rights, the fight to include non-Protestant Christians in society, the fight to give blacks and other ethnic minorities full civil rights, the fight against rock-and-roll, and now the fight to give gay men and women full civil rights. Those Christians will soon have to find someone else to pick on. But who's left?"
AND this one::
"For some reason, after reading this thread, something Florence the maid said on the old sit-com The Jeffersons is ringing in my ears: "How come we overcame and no one told me?!" "
"Gays have won? Not really. Christian Conservatives are losing again. They have been on the losing side of every social progression in American history: the fight to end slavery, the fight against women's rights, the fight to include non-Protestant Christians in society, the fight to give blacks and other ethnic minorities full civil rights, the fight against rock-and-roll, and now the fight to give gay men and women full civil rights. Those Christians will soon have to find someone else to pick on. But who's left?"
AND this one::
"For some reason, after reading this thread, something Florence the maid said on the old sit-com The Jeffersons is ringing in my ears: "How come we overcame and no one told me?!" "
#36
Posted: 6/24/03 at 12:18pm
I personally would give Bush the title racist because of some of the following examples:
Bush used the term in remarks to reporters at the Oval Office on Jan. 7. Discussing the possibility of India and Pakistan going to war, he said: “I don’t believe the situation is defused yet, but I do believe there is a way to do so, and we are working hard to convince both the Indians and the Pakis there’s a way to deal with their problems.”
In November 1999 he appointed as his police chief Charles Williamm who in a sworn deposition in October 1998 testified that he did not find terms such as "porch monkey" to be racial slurs. Williams apparently went on to say that blacks didn't mind being called "n*s" 50 years ago, and that "I've been around race with blacks and browns all my life. I'm the farthest thing from a racist." Williams reportedly did not find a police offer calling an African-American child a "black bastard" to be racist either.
Whilst a presidential candidate he also addresed several thousand students at an institution which is a bastion of Christian fundamentalist bigotry.
Founded by Baptist evangelist Bob Jones Sr. in 1927, who was succeeded by Bob Jones Jr. and now Bob Jones III, the university has been notorious for decades for providing a Biblical sanction for old-fashioned Southern racism. Until 1971 the school refused to admit blacks; for a number of years after that it would only admit married blacks, in order to forestall the possibility of interracial relationships.
In 1975 Bob Jones University adopted campus rules which explicitly forbid interracial dating, a ban which remains in effect to this day.
And if we go back a little further in to Bush's illustrious past you can find, that as a Congressional candidate in 1978, George W. Bush said, "I would vote against the implementation of sanctions against either Rhodesia or the Republic of South Africa. It is contrary to the best interests of the United States to allow Marxist-backed guerrillas to take over any free country, especially in a strife-ridden continent like Africa."
Bush used the term in remarks to reporters at the Oval Office on Jan. 7. Discussing the possibility of India and Pakistan going to war, he said: “I don’t believe the situation is defused yet, but I do believe there is a way to do so, and we are working hard to convince both the Indians and the Pakis there’s a way to deal with their problems.”
In November 1999 he appointed as his police chief Charles Williamm who in a sworn deposition in October 1998 testified that he did not find terms such as "porch monkey" to be racial slurs. Williams apparently went on to say that blacks didn't mind being called "n*s" 50 years ago, and that "I've been around race with blacks and browns all my life. I'm the farthest thing from a racist." Williams reportedly did not find a police offer calling an African-American child a "black bastard" to be racist either.
Whilst a presidential candidate he also addresed several thousand students at an institution which is a bastion of Christian fundamentalist bigotry.
Founded by Baptist evangelist Bob Jones Sr. in 1927, who was succeeded by Bob Jones Jr. and now Bob Jones III, the university has been notorious for decades for providing a Biblical sanction for old-fashioned Southern racism. Until 1971 the school refused to admit blacks; for a number of years after that it would only admit married blacks, in order to forestall the possibility of interracial relationships.
In 1975 Bob Jones University adopted campus rules which explicitly forbid interracial dating, a ban which remains in effect to this day.
And if we go back a little further in to Bush's illustrious past you can find, that as a Congressional candidate in 1978, George W. Bush said, "I would vote against the implementation of sanctions against either Rhodesia or the Republic of South Africa. It is contrary to the best interests of the United States to allow Marxist-backed guerrillas to take over any free country, especially in a strife-ridden continent like Africa."
"I tend to think if god wanted us to believe in him, he'd exist" Linda Smith
#37
Posted: 6/24/03 at 12:36pm
With regards to The Eminem- Elton John question and 'Why did Elton John appear to get a free pass on this one?', I would raise two points,
Firstly he did not, there was a significant outrage within the gay community and subsequent demonstrations at the Emmys.
However many believed that Eminem as opposed to Marshal Mathers is a satrical or more acurately a fictional creation, and any subsequent interviews where 'Eminem' has declared that he did not know that Elton John was gay and would not have appeared with him had he known would be judged personally as tongue in cheek and would tend to back up the opinion as 'Eminem' as a fictional creation.
Anyhow here's a link to demonstrate how opinions divided -
www.outuk.com/content/news/elton/
Firstly he did not, there was a significant outrage within the gay community and subsequent demonstrations at the Emmys.
However many believed that Eminem as opposed to Marshal Mathers is a satrical or more acurately a fictional creation, and any subsequent interviews where 'Eminem' has declared that he did not know that Elton John was gay and would not have appeared with him had he known would be judged personally as tongue in cheek and would tend to back up the opinion as 'Eminem' as a fictional creation.
Anyhow here's a link to demonstrate how opinions divided -
www.outuk.com/content/news/elton/
"I tend to think if god wanted us to believe in him, he'd exist" Linda Smith
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