GREY GARDENS - reviews- Page 2

[wickedfan]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 8:41pm

Thank you, Margo.
MasterLcZ-I never found the ending too cutsy. I mean, it pretty much shows the cycle of the Edie's, that this might have happened before: Edie SAYS she'll leave but she doesn't. She tries, but she just can't do it. By the end of the act I think there's a certain humble feeling to it because you realize that in a sense they ARE happy (strange as it may be). I don't think that Act 2 needs to be darker. Why make it darker? It's pure camp, and if you make it darker it just makes the audience (those who don't know the movie) go, "Wait, are they for real?"

I don't think Ebersole would mind giving up younger Edith if they beefed up older Edie. I mean, both are great roles but I think it's older Edie who is really the definitive character throughout.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:04pm

The campy act is the first act. Act 2 isn't. And if it's played that way - if you laugh AT the Beales and condescend to them - it's ruined.

You WANT the audience to say "Wait, are they for real?"

Updated On: 3/8/06 at 09:04 PM

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:09pm

Unless the writers have had the fear of God put into them by the reviews, they are unlikely to reconsider their position of thinking the show perfect. Frankly, at this point, even if they did make changes, it'd be too little too late. The concept for this show simply doesn't work and audiences don't care for it. This show won't be going anywhere.

"It's pure camp, and if you make it darker it just makes the audience (those who don't know the movie) go, 'Wait, are they for real?'"

Precisely. It's an exercise in genre and style over substance. When all is said and done, it was probably a poor choice for lyrical treatment and dramatization.

Allison MacKenzie
Peyton Place, New Hampshire
Updated On: 3/8/06 at 09:09 PM

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:12pm

Sara Gettelfinger is incredibly miscast. I don't know why they didn't keep Jennifer Laura Thompson, who was apparently wonderful in the workshop/reading and who has a great physical resemblance to Ebersole.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:28pm

"This show won't be going anywhere."

I wouldn't bet the farm on that, toots.

Yes - the show has gotten very mixed reviews - but Brantleys 24-karat rave about Ebersole's performance as "one of the most gorgeous ever to grace a musical" may prove sufficient to lure potential backers to re-open GREY GARDENS elsewhere. And thankfully, all its delicious score will be recorded.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:32pm

What would you approximate the budget to be to do the show on Broadway?

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:40pm

How much is DROWSY CHAPERONE budgeted at? That's my guesstimate.

It already looks as if it has a lot of money in it now - W.I. Long and Peter Kaczrowski don't come cheap. And the staging (particularly of the second act) is inventive and elaborate.

Updated On: 3/8/06 at 09:40 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:42pm

As is? Hmmmmmmmm.....

Maybe $4-5 million? With a cast of 10 plus understudies, not sure how many musicians, a big functional set on a turntable I would think it would be capitalized just a little higher than what Avenue Q cost, which if I remember correctly was about $3.5 million (that's also Spelling Bee's cost). Caroline cost $5.5 million, but had almost twice as big a cast (with understudies).

Not sure though.

Updated On: 3/8/06 at 09:42 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:44pm

In your opinion, Margo, is it a show that could recoup running for a limited engagement? I don't even know if there is a theatre for it now, but it seems like just about every theatre has something coming in the next five or six months...

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:54pm

I just don't see it having the kind of potential audience appeal to recoup on Broadway. It's a weird, eccentric little story that has a certain cult following because of the film but that following just isn't large enough to support the show beyond Playwrights (I think the extended run at Playwrights is going to burn through all of the film fans). I can't imagine tourists flocking to it, and with that slate of middling to negative reviews, you're not going to get the core local theatregoing audience to come out in droves. How would you market this?

Think about Spelling Bee and Q -- they both got nearly across the board raves, were easy to market, cheap to run, are in perfect-sized theatres and have a very wide appeal -- especially to the 20 - 45 crowd. They both managed to recoup in something like 6 months -- almost unheard of in this day and age. Who's the audience for Grey Gardens?

If they were to revamp the show entirely and turn it into a lean FOLLIES-esque 90 minute show and got a slate of raves .....MAYBE it could run. But as of right now, in this state, I just don't see it.

Updated On: 3/8/06 at 09:54 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 9:58pm

That's what I suspected, Margo - but Playwrights evidently "is" still talking transfer - even after the reviews. Perhaps the material has enough die hard fans/backers who don't care about losing $5 million?

My guess is that unless the reviews today had a sudden surge on the box office, the talk will gradually fade.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 11:23pm

Exactly. Just like all the talk that SIDE SHOW and BAT BOY, blah blah blah, would re-open on Broadway, etc. etc. Producers not only won't do it, they can't do it.

Selena Cross
Peyton Place, New Hampshire

[wickedfan]

Posted: 3/8/06 at 11:39pm

MastLcZ-Act One is unintentionally campy. It's like Die Mommie Die! with the intention of being Ordinary People. In Act Two, the characters are sooo over the top that you laugh at how serious they are about what they are saying. Why play it darker? Darker comedy? That might work. But any other side of darkness, such as playing it more serious, would damage it.

And both you and EnchantedHunter misread my quote. You DO want the audience to laugh and say "Oh these women, can they be for real?". But I meant that if you play the show more seriously than the audience watching these women pour the souls out on the stage saying cheesy writing, will just look dumbfounded and say to themselves, "Are they for real? Are they trying to do SERIOUS theatre?"

Act Two I think balances the campiness that is the Bouvier women perfectly and the dipping beneath the surface. I mean, in the documentary, we hear the women talk about what glorious lives they led and all that. But, the show takes a bit of a serious turn when Edie takes some time alone and looks at some of her old belongings. She doesn't say a word, she just let's the items speak for themselves (this would be during "Around the World"). I found it incredibly powerful because you forget sometimes that Edie had everything going for her and it all just slipped away and now she's in seclusion with her mother. It's shimmering moments like this in GREY GARDENS that you see the wonderful show
within that could have been.

It's funny to watch them because they are both enormously entertaining women to watch, but their situation is quite sad. And if you add the flashbacks into the storyline, you get a better sense of how incredibly sad the entire documentary (and Act Two) truly is.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 12:13am

"And both you and EnchantedHunter misread my quote. You DO want the audience to laugh and say "Oh these women, can they be for real?". But I meant that if you play the show more seriously than the audience watching these women pour the souls out on the stage saying cheesy writing, will just look dumbfounded and say to themselves, 'Are they for real? Are they trying to do SERIOUS theatre?'"

Precisely why it's camp, wickedfan: there's no there there. I got you the first time.

Selena Cross
Peyton Place, New Hampshire

Updated On: 3/9/06 at 12:13 AM

[Doogie]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 2:24am

That was my biggest issue with the show.

The world was little Edie's oyster, and then it literally ALL went to pot.....HOW?

I liked the show for its individual moments, but as a whole, there is a major something missing.

Does anyone know how Little Edie, in real life, actually wound up so....different? I know dreams get shattered, etc. But it did not even seem like the same personality...Anywhere close.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 12:00pm

Doogie -

I heartily recommend watching the dvd of GREY GARDENS with the commentary - the filmmakers talk a lot about reasons "why" Edie might have ended up as she did. It's mostly a psychological hypothesis: about Edie's increasingly defiant relationship with her father, the "trap" of her social status and her increasingly codependent relationship with her mother.

Edie did leave home and lived in NYC for a time period where she "studied" dance - but nobody knows exactly how serious or focused she was. There is no way Edie's father would have let her dance professionally, but there is also a hint that perhaps Edie wasn't really able to mentally/physically/financially - whichever you believe - support herself in NYC.

She came home to "take care" of her mother after her father divorced her. But it's not clear how much of that was Big Edie or Little Edie's decision. It's all very speculative, which is what makes the story fascinating.

But, like I say earlier - it was a very gradual thing - the breaking down of esteem combined with a rebellious lack of focus.

It isn't really the thing you can easily dramatize - and it will be interesting to see how they attempt it if the planned film version with Lange and Barrymore happens...

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 12:11pm

Just a tad off subject, but has anyone seen the documentary from which this show is based?

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 12:23pm

Almost all the "elders" on this board have.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 12:25pm

I thought MOST of us had seen the documentary -- perhaps I'm wrong.

I've seen it a dozen times over the years (as have most of the people I know) and own the DVD.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 1:24pm

I never even heard of it until this musical.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 2:39pm

Roninjoey, me neither. That's why I asked, though it has piqued my curiousity and I'll see if it can be rented.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 2:51pm

Maybe I'll queue it up on netflix.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 3:02pm

Truly one of the greatest, most influential and most fascinating documentary films ever made.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 3:08pm

For those of you who HAVE seen the documentary, here's a great "whatever happened to?" article on Jerry Torre, the real-life Marble Faun:
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/060306ta_talk_green

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 3/9/06 at 3:14pm

Anybody who considers themself a true cineist should know that the Criterion Collection DVD of GREY GARDENS is required viewing.