Gavroche and Eponine?

[StageManager2]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 10:28pm

Are they brother and sister? I was just listening to my complete recording CD and I remember from when I read the book back in HS that they may have been siblings. During Eponine's death, when Marius is holding her, she rambles on about something or other and before she expires she hears Gavroche singing his little 'war song' in the distant and she tells Marius that he is her brother. I know she had a sister and a baby brother, but I'm pretty sure Gavroche was also the Thenardier's child. In the musical they make no reference to their kinship. Can anyone confirm?

[gavrochegirl]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 10:31pm

Yep, they're brother and sister.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 11:40pm

There is no mention in the musical of their being related, no.

But in the novel, when Valjean goes to buy Cosette from the Thénardiers, there's a baby crying upstairs - that baby is Gavroche.

[Jyn326]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 1:57am

OK, I was about to feel like a really bad "Les Mis" fan. I had no idea they were siblings in the novel (which I'm obviously not as familiar with). When this thread started I was wondering how I missed that they were brother and sister in the musical. But thanks to Lizzie I don't feel so bad!

I really should read the novel, though. I keep meaning to.

[freeadmission]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 8:23am

It's an excellent novel, very moving and very well written. In addition to Gavroche, Eponine has a sister named Azelma.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 10:28am

it's too bad this relationship isn't established in the words of the show, but a smart director could do some really interesting and cute interactions wordlessly between the two. It would make for some cool subtext.

[Dre2387]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 1:20pm

THere was a movie version of Les Miserable that I saw on ABC family. It has Eponine and her sister, Azelma. not sure about Gavroche though. Loved this version. so good. also, the only movie that I like John Malcovich in.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0230534/

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 1:41pm

There are also two more little brothers who Mme. Thénardier gives (or sells?) to another woman.

[Jyn326]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 2:20pm

wow. I had no idea. I'll definately get the novel as soon as possible.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 2:25pm

Yes, definItely do that.

Gavroche takes care of the kids, not knowing they're his brothers.

I seem to remember they're actually in the Neeson/Rush movie, which almost made up for the entire "Cosette at gunpoint" scene, but not really.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 2:27pm

Is it true that Eponine parent's made her work as a prostitute? I know the music well, by never seen the show, so I don't know anything I might have gained from dialouge. Hopefully I'll see it on tour this summer in Dallas!

[StageManager2]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 3:02pm

Thanks to everyone who answered my question. Lizzie, I saw the Neeson/Rush movie, which I didn't like, and I recall Gavroche with "his kids." Too bad they completely eliminated Eponine and downplayed the Thenardiers. I wondered too about Cosette at the barricades. I hope someday someone makes a movie that is truthful to the book. I think the musical is closer to any I've ever seen, i.e. the 1930s version and some 1970s British miniseries I saw.

[insomniak]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 3:03pm

I've read the complete, unabridged version of the book and unless my memory serves me wrong, Eponine isn't a prostitute.


Updated On: 5/1/06 at 03:03 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 3:06pm

I think it's implied, though, isn't it?

I have the unabridged one, too, but I haven't read it in years.

[insomniak]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 3:10pm

I'm not sure, Lizzie.... I did read it at the rate of 150 pages a day for two straight weeks (for some stupid reason, I was determined to use it for my book report instead of one of the teeneybopper novels that everyone else was reading), so I could have missed something.

I could have sworn Gavroche isn't related to the Thenardiers, but I just checked Sparknotes and it claims that he's Eponine and Azelma's brother. Sparknotes has been wrong before, (They used the wrong name for Ms. Havisham's house in Great Expectations) but still...

I feel like I'm missing something. Can anyone confirm these two things?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 3:20pm

Gavroche is definitely Eponine's brother in the book.

The musical tends to cut Gavroche's material, so they must not have thought him an important character. Gavroche's song has seen more chopping than Fantine's hair.

I've never understood why, when they do include all of Gavroche's music, he doesn't get to come out with Fantine and Eponine singing the "Come with me..." music to escort Valjean to Heaven.

Updated On: 5/1/06 at 03:20 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 3:20pm

"1820 - M. Madeleine is named mayor of Montreuil-sur-mer. End of the year: Fantine is fired from the factory, and Gavroche Thenardier's birth"
http://www.geocities.com/alejandra24601/Chronology.htm

"He is married to Madame Thenardier and father to Eponine and Gavroche (although he has abandoned Gavroche to the streets of Paris.)"
http://www.mtishows.com/show_casting.asp?ID=000226

"Gavroche, a son of Monsieur and Madame Thenardier, left home and lived on the street with the other street urchins. He periodically visited his parents, but Madame Thenardier made it abundantly clear that she did not want anything to do with him. "
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist255/jkr/lesmis.html

[insomniak]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 3:30pm

Thanks, Lizzie and Gothampc.

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 5:48pm

I also read the unabridged version, and it IS implied that Eponine was sold as a prostitute by her parents.

Mme Thernadier had a disdain for boys, which is why she got rid of Gavroche and the 2 little boys. The chapter in which Gavroche takes his 2 brothes under his wing (without realizing who they are) is one of the most beautiful in the whole book.

[TLKfan]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 9:51pm

Wow I wonder if I ever knew that about the two. I've only read part of the book so far...but I have seen the US version which was pretty good for being short, but my favorite one is the French version with Gerard Depardieu because you find more about the Thenardiers, etc.

[maybethistime]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 9:55pm

I haven't read the book, but from seeing it I showhow inferred that they were siblings...

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 9:56pm

I think they fit in all they can, with Eponine clowning with Gavroche during Look Down to Gavroche running after her body after ALFOR. But it's yet another plot point that wouldn't fit unless you turned the show into a 3-night extravaganza.

[Tsao5]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 1:31pm

True; though, if there was more info about exactly what the ABC cafe was.....basically a secret society of students fighting for street children's rights......the death of Gavroche would have even more impact than it does. Of all that had to be omitted from the stage version, just a line or two explaining WHO and WHAT the students were all about, would have been my choice. The image of the students seeing Gavroche killed represents all the children they were fighting for.....ok, now I am babbling, time for sleep.

[Colle]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 3:34pm

I enjoy seeing the little things in the musical that hint that Gavroche and Eponine are brother and sister.

I have seen the Gerard Depardieu/John Malcovich movie, because I saw the movie in French I am not sure if it does say they are brother and sister, though I think it might. Eponine and Gavroche do have, what I think is, a little brother and sisterly interaction in that movie. I do think it is strange that Gavroche doesn't seem to age once Valjean and Cosette get to Paris.

[Zeitoujo]

Posted: 5/4/06 at 8:21am

OMFG EDEN IN LES MIS??? WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I'D BE IN HEAVEN IF SHE'S IN THE SHOWWW!! EDEN AND SHO IN LES MIS = LIFE