How much $$$... — Page 2

The thing with LOTR though is that if/when it is mounted in the West End or on Broadway then its intitial mounting cost will be significantly lower then it was for Toronto. The public figure given ($27 million Canadian) would be much lower for other productions because a significant amount of that money went into creation and invention. The real figure is a lot higher and would not be needed either since most of the money went into experimentation for the show.

2000 seats, I have no clue if they are selling out though. They have already started to sell rear balcony discounted tickets, so I imagine that's not a good sign. BUT on the other hand they just extended for 12 weeks into September.

^hence the reason for Les miz cuts.

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It'll be interesting to see what the producers can work out. Clearly they want to get this show to New York and London, but they just need to work out all the details and union obstacles to make it financially feasible.

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Whoa... all these LOTR talk is making me nervous. Does most of the producing cost come from salaries of performers and musicians? What about stage tech. and theatre space and ushers and such? Also, where does the money that they make go to (Gross-Operating cost=???) [I'm assuming the producer]

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If they are just breaking even, they won't ever recoup

Some of the $$ came from the Government (do they EVER expect to get investments back?) Esp to make LOTR a "destination" event in Toronto and is certainly featured in the Ontario tourist commercials. (tho WHY they decided to use "On With the Show" as tehir music is quite beyond my fathoming.
Truly, I don't see this transfering to N.Y. and frankly the problem w the West End transfer is that it would divert European audiences ( a prime target) from the original. The Mirvishes have already discovered just how impt tourist $$ are when you have competion. Its a survival of the most economic.

"In many cases with shows that have a small band, there are musicians called "walkers" who just play cards backstage - all the while getting pay and benefits. It is, I believe, the same with IATSE, the stagehand's union (and locals please correct me if this has changed, I've been out here in Los ANgeles for a long time)."

As Margo has said, allmylife, this is no longer a terribly common practice for musicians and never has been the case with IATSE.

"There's a reason you very rarely see a Broadway show that is even a minute longer than three hours -- overtime for stagehands is outrageous. I can't remember the exact numbers, but for every minute past three hours, producers have to pay a huge penalty cost."

I hesitate to question you of all people, Margo, but are you sure that's true? For if so, how did Les Mis run for so long in that fashion? Or Nicholas Nickleby (obviously some major deal had to be worked out with that one)? While Les Mis eventually did cut back so that the show ran under three hours, I believe they saved only the hour between 11pm and midnight. Seems unlikely the producers would have run the show for so long over three hours if they were paying a nightly outrageous overtime penalty.

Not to mention, since a show's running time changes from night to night, wouldn't the paycheck change from week to week? Sounds like an accountant's nightmare.

Updated On: 4/22/06 at 01:08 AM

I remember that Nicholas Nickelby worked out all sorts of concessions with both the stagehands and US Equity in order for the show to be able to transfer here and run with the original London cast. It was a strictly limited engagement (three months and only 50 performances), but because of all the hype it was totally sold out and still managed to turn a profit as I recall (at the then unheard of ticket price of $100 a piece -- three times the top ticket price in those days, but then again the show was over 8 hours long).

I don't remember the deal with Les Miz, but I think that since it was a completely soldout hit for the first decade of its run (at least) it was able to absorb any additional overtime costs and still turn at a huge weekly profit. When box office started to slip, they made cuts in the running time.

However, I remember that when Angels in America ran on Broadway in the early 90s, the stagehands dubbed the show the "cash machine" because each part ran over three hours and overtime was apparently huge (Kushner eventually made cuts to both plays later in the run so that they came in at around 2:55 each). Unlike Les Miz, Angels, despite its acclaim, was never a soldout hit and ultimately the show lost $1.1 million during its 19 month Broadway run, due largely to its high running costs of which the overtime payments were a large part.

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Updated On: 4/22/06 at 01:32 AM

"If you have a good stage manager then the running time shouldn't vary, at the max 5 minute differances(execept in circumstances where a show starts late or has a problem)."

Not entirely true, Tag. The Producers, for example, used to vary in running time pretty drastically depending on the actors' whim and audience reaction. It also used to run almost three hours, and on occasion, the play-off music was cut (by a very good stage manager) so that the hour (11pm) wouldn't be broken, incurring not overtime, but instead a full hour's pay for all involved. It's not overtime pay, but it adds up, and understandably they try to avoid it. The Producers now runs a little over 2 1/2 hours, although nothing has been cut.

Besides, if what Margo says is true (and I've never known Margo to be wrong before), and there's a huge penalty per minute after 11pm, every minute counts, and the paychecks would vary every week.

Updated On: 4/22/06 at 02:07 AM

It seems that a large contingent of lawyers, crown attorneys, federal prosecutors, RCMP officers and SEC officials are GLAD that Livent is no longer around, n'est pas?

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Updated On: 4/22/06 at 02:59 AM

From The CBC News Service:

"Drabinsky, Gottlieb charged with fraud in Livent case
23 Oct 2002 12:17:02 EDT
CBC News
TORONTO, ON - The RCMP charged Garth Drabinsky and Myron Gottlieb, the co-founders of the once high-flying theatre company Livent, with 19 counts each of fraud following a four-year investigation into the business's books.

"We are alleging that the accused defrauded creditors and private and public investors of approximately one-half a billion dollars between Dec. 14, 1989, and June 23, 1998," RCMP Detective Inspector Craig Hannaford of the commercial crime unit told reporters during a news conference in Toronto.

"In addition, we estimate that approximately $210 million in market capitalization was lost between the time the trading of Livent shares halted on Aug. 10, 1998, and when trading resumed on Nov. 19, 1998," Hannaford said.

Drabinsky and Gottlieb both face charges of fraud over $5,000. Gordon Eckstein, Livent's former vice-president of finance, faces 18 counts of fraud, while Robert Topol, the company's former chief operating officer, is accused of 13 counts of fraud."

And of course, they have not returned to the United States where they also face indictment.

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