I know I might be bitch slapped but...- Page 2

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:59pm

Painting the faces of Non-Black actors to make them appear black is an offensive "tradition" that is a dark point in American theatre history. Every heard of "black face", minstrel shows? Not good. Not the same as Idina going green.

What you are suggesting Jimmy is rooted in years of discrimination against African Americans. Not saying, you personally are discriminating, but just wanted to make you aware that painting non-black actors black, is not something to be taken lightly.

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 05:59 PM

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:03pm

Kavana im not trying to be racist sorry, i didnt mean anything offensive im just stating that race really wouldnt matter, long as you have appropriate makeup and talent.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:04pm

YOu still don't get it? Oh, well.

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:08pm

oh im not suggesting black face, she could just get a tan is all im saying.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:11pm

That is the same thing as black face.

People used to wear full black make-up and do really stereotypical gestures and actions related to the black community.

Any attempt to make a obviously non-black actor look black is essentially black face.

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/railton/huckfinn/minstrl.html

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:13pm

im not saying she should use black foundation, im just saying she could get a tan.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:20pm

Why deprive all the talented black actors of playing the role? It just doesn't work on so many levels.

Do you know Dreamgirls? It really wouldn't work with Ramirez's voice, and the significant break she has.

Being talented doesn't mean you can play everything.

I do think Ramirez would make a fine Elphaba. But Effie-no way.

I imagine too, there would be serious backlash if Ramirez were cast as Effie.
Updated On: 6/6/05 at 06:20 PM

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:28pm

I was only saying this as a response to this thread. Dont think she could play every role, i was just agreeing with the thread. Not everything is meant to be racist you know.

[whatyouown223]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:29pm

I didn't even think Sara was Latina until just a while ago, she can barely pass for Hispanic so much as Black.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:31pm

Well, any attempt to make Ramirez black would likely be racist.

Research the history of this activity, please. Educate yourself.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:32pm

Oh my, this thread is intense.

I think most of us agree that you can cast against type or race except when the role needs to be a certain race for the plot. I mean, you just can't cast an asian girl in Raisin in the Sun. It doesn't work like that.

Dreamgirls is certainly an example of this. It's important to the story and the show that they're black. Period.

[Hoof]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:35pm

This is getting ridiculous. If I had super powers I'd shut this thread down.

This is almost as stupid as this one kid last year (when I was in highschool) who asked if we could put on the Broadway version of the Lion King. If not, he said he would settle for the Producers.

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 06:35 PM

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:35pm

ok sorry. im not trying to be racist i just dont think race really matters from the theater, you can hardly tell anyway if youre in the balcony.

[HonoursLady]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:36pm

I guess if we are casting Sara Ramirez as Effie, we may as well cast Cameron Diaz as Deena.

[Drew7810]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:37pm

oh...this thread is out of control.

and I LOVE Margo Channing! I live for your posts!

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:39pm

If you were black Jimmy, and you were very talented, and you saw 1000's of talented black girls go in for Effie, and they cast RAmirez over you and over the slew of qualified BLACK actresses, wouldn't you be a tad offended and feel cheated?

I imagine, if this ever happened, Equity would intervene (ala Jonathan Price in Miss Saigon)

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:40pm

Even from the balcony, Sara Ramirez looks like a white girl. Have you ever seen Dreamgirls?

If the show is ABOUT race -- Dreamgirls, Show Boat, Jelly's Last Jam, South Pacific -- then yes it DOES matter very much that race-appropriate actors are cast or the show will make no sense to the audience and it undermines the points being made by the book.

Non-traditional casting is terrfic in many instances.......IF race is not a salient subject matter dealt with in the show. An actor's "look" does matter sometimes in casting (and not just an actor's race) and the proper telling of the story.

Ramirez as Effie makes no sense -- and yes, "blacking her up" would be racist. There are many other roles for Ramirez -- let her do one of those.

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 06:40 PM

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:43pm

Not at all, if she was more talented for the part than me and the other 1000s of ppl then she deserved the part. Theater is about talent not what color your skin is. My aunt was beaten out for Fantine in Les Miserables for an African American women, not because she was African American, but because she was more talented.
and yes i've seen dreamgirls. Updated On: 6/6/05 at 06:43 PM

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:43pm

DIdn't equity have a cow when the very non-asian Pryce was going to play the Engineer on Broadway? I believe that since they allowed Price to do it, Equity stipulated that every actor cast after Price must be Asian.
Updated On: 6/6/05 at 06:43 PM

[Pinguin]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:45pm

Yeah, it was a REALLY big deal when they cast Pryce...I guess they thought that since the role was supposed to be a "half asian" that they could get away with it.

But they still put "asian" make up on his eyes.

::shiver::

Not that I don't love Pryce...but come on.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:48pm

this thread wasnt about race at all. it was about people stepping outside of the comfort zone and seeing something different. it wasnt made to offend, disrespect or put down anyone's race or intelligence. i apologize if its causing a rift. i thought maybe no one would say anything about race, but i was very wrong. ms ramirez is a fine actress with a god given talent. in my opinion, i believe she could play a black woman, black women are of all skintones: from the darkest dark, to the lightest light. but thats MY opinion. like i said, just let it die, it took a very wrong turn.

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:48pm

this isnt a real decision, i'm merely saying metaphysically I would like to hear Sara sing something from Dreamgirls, or even be in it. This thread isgetting to out of control i really am not trying to offend anyone, I'm just saying sara has a powerful voice and could do dreamgirls. you all dont need to get so mad at me, i didnt do anything wrong, i was just voicing my opinion about sara's voice, and that I think she has a vry soulful beautiful voice.

and i agree this is getting old.
Updated On: 6/6/05 at 06:48 PM

[Mythus]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:52pm

Whether or not Sara can play a black woman is irrelevant.

Effie is black. Sara is not. The end.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:52pm

Point Blank:

Suggesting a non-black actor to play a black role that is specifically written for a black actor automatically makes this subject about race.

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:58pm

It doesnt even matter anymore its not like Dreamgirls is even on broadway. I just like Sara's voice and excuse me for agreeing with the initial thread question. I just want this to end now, this thread is worse than anne hathaway's dress last night.