Into the woods revival? Thoughts?- Page 2

[WaffleOnWheels]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 2:08pm

Mister Matt said: "Bernadette reviving her role would be super interesting to see play out.

Why? You can watch the DVD thousands of times and it will most likely be better than watching her play the role in her 70s."

I was referring to how it would help a potential revival in terms of the box office.

Updated On: 12/26/17 at 02:08 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 3:58pm

I was referring to how it would help a potential revival in terms of the box office.

Because the Follies revival was a smash hit?

[binau]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 4:06pm

Up until Jake G in Sunday the FOLLIES revival had the highest grossing week of any Sondheim musical on Broadway ever. It definitely wasn't a 'smash hit' but there was some interest, at least initially. Of course I acknowledge Bernadette is no Bette Midler, but we're also talking about her in Into the Woods, not Follies. Into the Woods is much more well known, appeals to a wider audience - and will have some nostalgia/marketing appeal that she is coming back. There is a reason Into the Woods is a Disney movie and Follies is not.

I know it won't happen, but I'll be praying for it .

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 4:40pm

Up until Jake G in Sunday the FOLLIES revival had the highest grossing week of any Sondheim musical on Broadway ever.

So?  The *CAPS-LOCK* Follies revival had the highest ticket prices until then as well.  If the ticket prices are higher for an *CAPS-LOCK* Into the Woods revival with Bernadette, it would probably have a singular higher grossing week than the *CAPS-LOCK* Follies revival.  And flop.  It's not a convincing argument that Bernadette was the reason one Sondheim revival had one big record week in ticket sales of a Sondheim show over a 50-year period.

There is a reason Into the Woods is a Disney movie and Follies is not.

Oh, you figured that out all by yourself, did you?  Congratulations.  It has nothing to do with Bernadette.  Now, put Bernadette as first-stringer in a revival of corny war horse of an old musical comedy that nobody would otherwise want to see, like Annie Get Your Gun, in a less than stellar year for musicals on Broadway, then I get it.  I adore Bernadette Peters.  I watch Mozart in the Jungle.  But in terms of box office, there's no reason to think she'd be a big box office draw to anyone other than hardcore fans who represent a small minority.  And after having seen Channing in the 90s revival of Dolly, some things are best remembered, rather than revisited.

Updated On: 12/26/17 at 04:40 PM

[binau]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 5:57pm

The whole "ticket price" thing RE: grosses is the stupidest argument that seems to put up every other week here. By that logic, Home for the Holidays could charge Hamilton prices and become the highest grossing Broadway show on Broadway ever. Of course it doesn't work that way - the point is people need to buy the tickets! 

Of course, it's hard to know why people bought Follies tickets. In a Broadway economy where it's very difficult to get any show an audience, let alone a Sondheim show, I personally will choose to believe that having Broadway's greatest star ever (:P) had something to do with it - but that's just me.

You are confused at my point RE: the Into the Woods movie. Of course it has nothing to do with Bernadette - it's to do with THE SHOW. The SHOW appeals to a wide audience. My point is that the outcome of Bernadette in FOLLIES is probably not going to be the same as putting Bernadette in INTO THE WOODS - one is a depressing, bleak show about everything that is terrible about being a human - the other is a funny (if dark) twist on popular fairy tales. 

The way you are talking about Bernadette is as if she is just another Broadway actor that doesn't have a big following. This is Bernadette Peters, who along with people like Angela Lansbury and Patti LuPone are the biggest stars to ever grace the Broadway stage. Her name actually means something and sells tickets. We aren't talking about people like Marin Mazzie (As much as I love her), Andy Karl etc. it's BERNADETTE PETERS!

Updated On: 12/26/17 at 05:57 PM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 6:06pm

qolbinau said: "Up until Jake G in Sunday the FOLLIES revival had the highest grossing week of any Sondheim musical on Broadway ever. It definitely wasn't a 'smash hit' but there was some interest, at least initially. Of course I acknowledge Bernadette is no Bette Midler, but we're also talking about her in Into the Woods, not Follies. Into the Woods is much more well known, appeals to a wider audience - and will have some nostalgia/marketing appeal that she is coming back. There is a reason Into the Woods is a Disney movie and Follies is not.

 

As someone who has always liked Bernadette Peters, I nevertheless have to disagree with you re the impact her return in the role of the witch would have on box office.  There are those who will go to see it because they love ITW ('the core group' or because they see everything.   I suspect they will intersect significantly with people who would see it because she is returning to the role.  

The reality is that ITW is an ensemble piece; she didn't even get nominated for a Tony when it opened, partially because the Baker's Wife is a better role, partially because she didn't stand out as the witch (I for one thought that Vanessa Williams was a better in the role, even though I still didn't like the show), partially because she was a big star in a featured role.  I really doubt that there would be that much additional sales beyond the core group to see her return to a featured role.  No way to prove this, of course.  Just an opinion, from someone who doesn't even like the show, and has no interest in seeing it again, with or without BP.

 

 

[gypsy101]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 7:03pm

is that why she wasn’t nominated for the tony? i thought it was because she was in the show for such a short period of time

[binau]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 7:17pm

There is a whole thread about this, with some claiming she was never submitted for a nomination. I don’t know the truth or the rationale.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/27/17 at 1:21pm

I always heard she declined submission for a Tony because she was only stepping in for a short time as a favor to Sondheim.

The whole "ticket price" thing RE: grosses is the stupidest argument that seems to put up every other week here. By that logic, Home for the Holidays could charge Hamilton prices and become the highest grossing Broadway show on Broadway ever. Of course it doesn't work that way - the point is people need to buy the tickets! 

You were the one comparing one week's grosses of the latest Sondheim revival to every other Sondheim show in Broadway history, so yeah, that's a pretty stupid statement to make.

The way you are talking about Bernadette is as if she is just another Broadway actor that doesn't have a big following. This is Bernadette Peters, who along with people like Angela Lansbury and Patti LuPone are the biggest stars to ever grace the Broadway stage. Her name actually means something and sells tickets. 

Like how Lansbury sold Blithe Spirit, Deuce and The Best Man?  Or LuPone sold Women on the Verge and War Paint?  With Night Music, Lansbury left the same time as Zeta-Jones, less than a year after it opened, but it would be foolish to pretend Lansbury was the draw to the show.  When Peters and Stritch took over, it closed in 6 months.  The combination of Peters and Into the Woods might do okay for maybe a year if she chooses to stick it out that long (or the show runs that long) as with Gypsy.  Using *CAP-LOCK* doesn't make her a huge bankable star on Broadway.  

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/27/17 at 2:08pm

gypsy101 said: "is that why she wasn’t nominated for the tony? i thought it was because she was in the show for such a short period of time"

You may be right; I remember that, when the show opened, I was surprised that she did not get the kind of reviews I would have expected; I have always assumed that was for two reasons: Joanna Gleason, who was very good, was practically (and ridiculously IMO) deified in some of the reviews, i.e,, she overshadowed the normally un-overshadowable Ms. Peters; and (verified when I saw it), I also assumed it was because it was not a 'star' role, which was the normal expectation at that time.  To me, and I am sure that part of the reason is because I have only seen it 3 or 4 times, I have always felt that the role of the witch is more prominent in the movie, due to close-ups, retained songs, Meryl Streep. 

Re people who are mainly famous for their stage work (not to say they haven't had success in film or TV) Peters clearly is a steady in a very small group of current real box office attractions, as are Lupone, Audra MacDonald, Sutton Foster, Idina Menzel, Kristen Chenoweth, probably Cherry Jones and Mark Rylance, and undoubtedly some I am forgetting, as were Angela Lansbury from Mame on, Zero Mostel, and others.  They really sold and continue to sell a good number of seats when they appear.  

There is a limit to the number of seats they sell, however; they do not sell like Nathan Lane does in a musical or comedy (not necessarily a drama).  They are not in the same category as the returning movie stars who attract an audience that goes far beyond the standard theatre going audience, e.g., Midler, Jackman, Washington.

I mention this because I think BP would only sell so many seats beyond the core ITW audience; it is not a lead role; and, despite being one of Sondheim's longest runs, it wasn't exactly a huge box office hit, struggling at the box office for more than half of its run.  Nor was the 'much-too-soon' revival with Vanessa Williams a hit.  Maybe as a non-profit, but as a for-profit production, I believe it would be a miserable failure without that movie cast.

PS -- I have seen every Broadway show BP has been in since George M. I even saw La Strada.  I buy tickets because she is in a show.  I am expecting her to be a warm, funny, energetic and tuneful Dolly.  I just could not bring myself to get tickets to ITW because she was returning in a small role.  

Updated On: 12/27/17 at 02:08 PM