Marvin Hamlisch

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 1:48am

Just wondering what the Broadway World community thinks about him.

I've been listening to the SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS score a lot lately, and I'm really enjoying it.

But Hamlisch has this sort of negative reputation. Even though he wrote A CHORUS LINE (a terrific musical) and THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG (a very good musical), he's always had this kind of "Hollywood Comes To Broadway" reputation, and it doesn't seem that the Broadway community respects him very much.

I'm curious as to whether the failure of SWEET SMELL had anything to do with this. It's really a brilliant score.

Opinions?

[apdarcey]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:01am

i second this post because i sang some stuff from sweet smell and it's really great... and how can the man who wrote the music to a chorus line be considered so irreverently? i mean i know it's the dancing and blah blah blah... but there are some f*cking great tunes in that show too...

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:21am

It's funny. While OKLAHOMA is always a "Rodgers and Hammerstein" show, and COMPANY is always referred to as a "Sondheim" show, A CHORUS LINE is known as a "Michael Bennett" show. Which must suck for Hamlisch.

Other composers have had this dilemma as well, but they recovered from it. SWEET CHARITY is thought of as a Fosse show, not a Cy Coleman one. But at least Coleman got BARNUM, which has never (to my knowledge) been referred to as a "Joe Layton musical."

Hamlish was cursed, in this regard. CHORUS LINE is the Bennett show, THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG is a Neil Simon show, and GOODBYE GIRL was just bad.

SWEET SMELL, on the other hand, could have been his breakthrough. Updated On: 1/27/05 at 02:21 AM

[InfiniteTheaterFrenzy]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:25am

I thoroughly agree with you in every respect.

Except that I think "Paula" is kind of a cute number.

Why doesn't ANYONE know "They're Playing Our Song"? (I mean, hardly anyone.)

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:25am

I LOVE the score for SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS. Apparently, though the book was the shows downfall and that none of the characters were likable - at least that's what I was told. but I listen to this CD more often than I probably should. It's my favorite flop. I'd like to see it revived someday with a new book.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:33am

Infinite,

I suspect that the reason THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG isn't performed that often is due to the one very difficult set requirement it has: A moving car. While that is an easy effect for a Broadway production to achieve, it's not so easy for community theatres. Which is sad, because the small cast, funny script, and accessible score would seem to guarantee it more productions than it garners. (And it can't be cut, it's central to the plot of most of the first act of the show.)

It would seem to be a case of Neil Simon screwing himself out of a lot of royalties. Which is too bad. It's a really fun show.

(Slightly OT -- I must confess that Stockard Channing's drunk driving charge today got me thinking about the car scenes in THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG, as she was the first actress I ever saw play that role. Shame on me.) Updated On: 1/27/05 at 02:33 AM

[InfiniteTheaterFrenzy]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:49am

That's SO unfortunate, Veuve. You're right. WHY would Neil Simon do that?
That's why I've seen more than enough mediocre productions of A Chorus Line, and scattered productions of The Goodbye Girl, and never a single mounting of They're Playing Our Song.

Goodbye Girl IS unfortunate... but I think it has a few good numbers. As I said, I think "Paula" is a little charming. "Don't Follow in My Footsteps" is a cute number for a cabaret or review. "I Think I Can Play This Part" is a nice, sweet song, and I've heard it used at auditions quite a few times. And "A Beat Behind" is a solid comedy number. Overall, the show isn't abysmal, but it's not GOOD either.

I do think he should get more credit for A Chorus Line, not that Bennett isn't a genius.

Poor Sweet Smell

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 3:06am

Infinite, regarding GOODBYE GIRL, I hear what you're saying. Unfortunately, I sat through the original Broadway production of that show three times, and it was always terrible.

Bernadette was completely wrong for the Marsha Mason role. She had NO chemistry with Martin Short. The set was cumbersome, and it looked like the actors were simply trying to keep up with that obstacle-course turntable, instead of thinking about their performances. The daughter was ghastly. And Rick Crom's role was cut out of town. (Note to future producers: When you have Rick Crom in a show, don't cut him out of town.)

I do like the cast album, however. I agree with you on all of the songs you mentioned. I'm a big fan of David Zippel, I think he's a very clever lyricist ("A Beat Behind" always makes me laugh. It's a funny, funny lyric.)

I don't have the London cast recording, in which the score was apparently modified substantially from the Broadway tunestack. I need to seek it out.

[InfiniteTheaterFrenzy]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 3:10am

Wow. Veuve, you don't cease to astound me with your observations!
What was Rick Crom's role? I'm very curious! I don't remember hearing about this.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 3:22am

Crom originally played the mugger who assaulted Bernadette in the Central Park scene, which was cut in Chicago. He remained in the show, and does appear on the cast album, albeit without a song to show his talent. (Can you tell that I'm a fan? I thought so.)

Go see NEWSICAL if you haven't yet. It's a terrific example of Rick Crom doing what he does best.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:07pm

I agree with you about Peters being wrong for Goodbye Girl, but never shared it because of her popularity.

Back to Hamlisch, I know a few of the Bd'w people he's worked with and he definitely runs his show by his own rules, which are often hard to swallow. He never wants the singers to outshine his orchestra and plans accordingly. He also take up much show time flaunting himself and his schtick. I found this most unnappealing.

Unlike Peter Nero and the Philly Pops, who presents his Broadway ShowStoppers Concerts with generous spotlights on the the Broadway vocalists. Peter generates a warmth and charm that few leaders have. It's a great concert every year.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:10pm

I enjoyed GOODBYE GIRL, because I love both Peters and Short. That said, I will now agree with the fact that it was tragically flawed. No one has mentioned my favorite song from that score - "No More."

I LOVE the score to THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG.

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:14pm

I love Chorus Line, and I absolutely adore The Way We Were (it might even be my favorite movie song of all time)


Marvin, you're alright by me!

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 2:19pm

Updated On: 5/28/05 at 02:19 PM

[Lwazi]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 5:34pm

I love 'A Chorus Line' and some movie songs that he has written.

My favourite movie song of his it had to be 'The Way We Were' because I heard it lots of times and I begin to like it so much.

I love that score and beautiful main theme of 'Sophie's Choice'.
I was so deeply moved while I was listen to it and I just love that theme and the songs from his recent musical 'Sweet Smell of Success' mostly the 'At The Fountain' musical number.

I can bare it that he's a good composer and many songs are good but his talent remains the best. I just like him because he's very talented and he was wonderful. PB Ent, do you have questions about Marvin?

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 6:44pm

I always liked "Dreamers" from Jean Seberg musical & what I have heard of Smile

Updated On: 1/28/05 at 06:44 PM

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 10:00pm

"Back to Hamlisch, I know a few of the Bd'w people he's worked with and he definitely runs his show by his own rules, which are often hard to swallow."

PB Ent, I've heard this as well. Do you think this has anything to do with the lack of appreciation from the Broadway community for him? He does seem to scream "Hollywood," which is, of course, where he came from. Perhaps people don't take his music seriously because they don't like him personally.

It seems like it's fine when a Broadway composer goes off to Hollywood, but the reverse is never true. (Like Andre Previn, or John Williams).

Posted: 1/27/05 at 10:06pm

Veuve - I would think it's more his personality - his work is hard to argue with.

It's interesting watching him work as Barbra's conductor - he definitely defers to her. Can you imagine the rehearsals?

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 10:15pm

Veuve~ Brad Little & Gary Mauer, present touring phantoms both worked with Hamlisch and J. Mark McVey (Les Miz) has a long standing career relationship with Hamlisch. I can't comment on their experience... but check you pm for further discussion.

Updated On: 1/27/05 at 10:15 PM

[SeeIreallycouldn'tSING!!]

Posted: 1/27/05 at 10:53pm

I know Chorsu Line is regarded as a total Micheal Bennenet musical, but mabye with the rivival coming out, he'll step out into the spotlight considering so many of the orinigal creative is gone.

[InfiniteTheaterFrenzy]

Posted: 1/28/05 at 12:18am

Oh yeah, Smile!

The majority of the score is adorable and perfection within the show!

That show needs to be seen more!!

[Chrysanthemum62001]

Posted: 1/28/05 at 1:02am

I think A Chorus Line was the first OBC recording I ever bought other than The Sound of Music. I ADORE that show and am waiting eagerly for a revival.
On the other hand, I can't stand Sweet Smell of Success.

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 1/28/05 at 1:39am

Veuve - I too really enjoy Sweet Smell and I honestly think it's some of his best music. When I went to see the show a couple years back, it was actually sold out and ended up catching The Full Monty instead. But I am a huge Brian d'Arcy James fan and while the show apparently had its problems (John Guare - you would think it would have been pretty great!) A few of the reviews commented that the music was inappropriately bright for the story (though I do think that's what Matthew Murray said - ugh). Also that Wheeldon's choreo was strange and the supporting roles (Susan/Dallas) were underwritten. Believe what you will, I LOVE the cast album - and hope to see it produced regionally at some point.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/28/05 at 1:50am

Leo,

I disagree with the Susan character being underwritten -- she actually makes much more sense in the musical than she does in the film.

I do agree that the music is occasionally "inappropriately bright"... or if not really "inappropriately bright," at least unsettling. I find the whole "gotta get in the column" refrain a little, well, contrived. (Perhaps it was that choreography).

On the other hand, I think that 'At the Fountain' sums up Sidney's character better in three and a half minutes than anything in the film.

It's certainly not the best musical ever written. But I think that the positives far outweigh the negatives.

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 1/28/05 at 1:58am

And I agree with you Veuve, it's certainly possible - I've heard other people tell me they really loved Susan's character and that Ms. O'Hara was great.
As far the overcomplicated choreo goes, even at the Tonys I was thinking, "why?".
"At the Fountain" is a wonderful 4 minutes of character development. Also, if the Featured Actor category wasn't so tough that year, James would have had a well-deserved Tony (or so I've been told by friends). Nonetheless, I do hope I am able to see the show at some point!

To add...some of Hamlisch's piano parts are killer!!

Updated On: 1/28/05 at 01:58 AM