Phantom...It Just keeps getting worse... (Don't read if you're a fan)- Page 4

[Justice]

Posted: 6/29/05 at 3:04am

Masquerade being good in the film...
DO people (and the choreographer) realize that VOGUE did not come out till the seventies/eighties. I thought it was pathetic to have a man vogueing on the steps...It couldn't have been any more innacurately gay!

[sanda]

Posted: 6/29/05 at 11:15am

Come on, it is just a show. Why so picky about time issue? Do you really want reason and logic in that story? How about Mme.Giry's age? How can the candle come from the water? etc, etc.

At least in movie Marsquerade is stunning.

[CatieElphie1]

Posted: 6/29/05 at 12:57pm

Hey...if you think ALW repeats himself, you need look no farther than JATATD....can we say....6 melodies in the entire show?
And phantom as a movie was very weak. i was not impressed with most of the music and all of the acting...but the costumes were cool. I like the costumes.
Emmy rossum...notsomuch

[JacksUsername]

Posted: 6/29/05 at 1:10pm

I'll always have a special interest in Phantom 'cause it was the first show I ever saw, but after just seeing it again during the Boston tour, I certainly have lost some of my love for it, especially after seeing shows like Into the Woods and Falsettos.

It's just so hard because the characters are all so stiff, and there is hardly any character development at all, and the music is definetly dated now. I was just glad I got to see Gary Mauer as Phantom this time, that was the highlight of seeing it again, he's an amazing Phantom.

[SweeneyPhanatic]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 4:38pm

I'm sure it's the cast one sees that determines how one feels about the show. I've seen clips of Crawford and Brightman, and I'm not impressed. Love them on the album, but not in performance. Some Phantoms I've heard are not pleasent to listen to (I'll never know wht people loved John Owen Jones so much). Gerard Butler might not have the smooth tenor we are all used to from the Phantom, but I can understand why he got the aprt (all one has to do is watch the interviews with the creators to figure it out) and I don't hate his voice, but I'm not the biggest fan (I only really hate that he sings "Go now and leave me!") The only Phantom to really impress me (and it might have been because of his great chemistry with his wife playing Christine) is Gary Mauer. Even from my nosebleed seat at the Fox Theatre I could feel the power of his performance, and his voice was perfect for the role (I wish Mauer and Southard could release a POTO recording! Even if it was only a few selections from the show, I'd buy it in a heartbeat).

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 4:43pm

Don't ever compare an actor to another actor. It comes across as juvenile.

[OSUBuckly]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 4:59pm

>>Don't ever compare an actor to another actor. It comes across as juvenile.<<


THAT is juvenile? Whatever. The poster has the right to comment in whatever way he/she chooses. Who are you to tell somewhat what opinion they can have on a PUBLIC message board? People compare actors to other actors all the time. You think your fellow Wicked geeks don't comment about that sort of thing? Get off your high horse and stop being mean because you think you're better than somebody else.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 5:27pm

I love when old threads like this get resurrected.

I was all set to post, "Hugh Panaro isn't playing the Phantom anymore" and then I realized the original post is over a year old...

[Sally]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 2:16am

Yes, seeing this thread resurrected is a bit bizzare. Since it began, Phantom has become the longest running show on Broadway, which is, I am sure, a really prickly burr under the blankets of fans of "quality" shows, particularly those among the Sondheim fans who are bitter that such a boring show with such derivitive, repetitive music and bad lyrics is loved by so many.

A new production, apparently with added glitz and special effects, has opened in Las Vegas, but I'm sure that doesn't bother the folks who find that it just keeps getting worse. It just confirms their judgement---and Sondheim would never play Vegas anyway.

I don't believe that good marketing can account for the repeat visits by many patrons. It's just possible that this show does get to the hearts of many theater goers...has, does, and probably will continue to do so for some time to come. Silly people.

It isn't, in my opinion, a theatrical sin to have a love story that affects people of all ages featuring accessible, melodic music and beautiful staging. Others have enumerated its assorted sins and will no doubt add others---or repeat the same old same old, but the Phantom continues to lurk Muhahaaaa

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 2:45am

I should have checked the date before I Posted.

I'll refute anyway:

Juvenile is defined as "of or relating to or characteristic of or appropriate for children or young people." Young and inexperienced people tend to say "she was better" or "she did this, but the other didn't."

Therefore, comparing two VERY different actors is juvenile because the comment was not well thought out, thus being characteristic of a child.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 3:34am

Another ALW sucks/Sondheim is God thread. Yawn!

[ruthiefan_felix]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 3:51am

I was this ignorant kid back then in HK who never gets a chance to see a show. And back then, by pictures, I loved Phantom more than Les Mis.
THen I went to study in UK and got a chance to watch shows. My first holiday, I was allowed 3 show, so I went for Phantom, Les Mis and CHicago (with Ruthie/Linzi!!). Gosh, Phantom was a big disappointment! John Owen-Jones was a GREAT Phantom and the cast was alright. But the start... was just SO boring! And the effects were so duh! Then I saw it the 2nd time in the next holiday because JOJ is leaving and Ramin Karimloo is Raoul. THe cast was SO gd and I LOVED them! But now the effects just didnt do anything at all.. I sat 1st row of the Dress Circle and man u can see the Chandelier comes down, makes a stop, finds a spot, aims at Christine then like a kid coming down a slide in the park it slides down to the stage and DAMN it missed!
I thought I shudve gone to see My Fair Lady instead when I had the chance... which apparently was very gd. And now, after I know more about musicals and listen to more composers and see more shows live, I find ALW's are just so cheap. The music is nice... very commercial with no heart though, but it's great to listen to sometimes!
And did I hear someone say WiW was gorgeous? The only thing gorgeous of the show was the extremely talented cast! When I saw the show with prob the best cast Ruthie/Simon Callows, the audiences around me are all sleeping at the end! And did someone say Sunday..George was boring?? Go to Ldn and watch the show NOW! It's a theatrical MASTERPIECE!
Even though I don't particularly like ALW anymore now, I have to say Joseph still holds a VERY special place in my heart cuz it was my first show, gave me my first cast recording, made me a fan of Linzi since 97! And ALW's stuff are very easy to listen to and I think his stuff easily attracts newcomers into the interest of theatre cuz his shows are all fancy. So i kinda love/hate ALW, but Phantom... defo hate now! :)

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 4:57am

I really dont think its fair to compare POTP to Sondheim. Phantom for one is musical theatre, where as , by Sondheim's own admission, he prefers to think of his work as a play set to music. They are different in form and character development. WHen people say that Phantom is boring, I often wonder what they would do if they went to see Turandot. I high suspect they would have the same reaction. Many of the numbers in Phantom are operatic in construction and that is why they are boring to many. Right now, it is easy to say how "cheesy" Phantom is, but lets face it when that thing came out it was THE hottest ticket in town, and audiences raved, as I am sure some of these posters probably did at the time. It would have been sacreligious at the time. Phantom and Les Miz were the Babe Ruth that saved baseball, they brought worldwide attention that theatre was alive and well, and nothing can be better than that.
Phantom is a fun show. I am an actor/singer and I love Sondheim. But I enjoy seeing some fun every now and then that doesnt need to be analyazed and heard 4 times before I get the cleverness of the lyric. The opening number in Phantom is pure magic plain and simple. The pure spectacle of what occurs is amazing and never fails to give me goosebumps. I also perform Chekhov and Ibsen, but one learns to appreciate the art form in its MANY forms. To rail on a success such as Phantom wreaks of amateur. It is the community theate actor that sits in the audience and is convinced he is as good as the guy on the Broadway stage, Well, he's not. I respect the person that says that was good but it wasnt my cup of tea. But to rip apart a show, any show that is so obvioius and worthy of praise in one way or another. The Phantom movie can be looked at as a bomb. I decided to enjoy the art directrion, the costume, and the lighting. I enjoyed the film. I found the good in it rather than the bad. Noone writes a melody like Andrew Lloyd Webber..his 35 year history proves it. Memory proves it. I Dont Know How to Love Him Proves it. The average public likes to come out humming shows every now and then. Hum Passion...I dare you. I always find circumspect the pseudo intellectual that PROUDLY proclaims the god Sondheim, because it is the thinking mans theatre. Is Sondheim genius, yes he is. Is Webber genius? Yes he is. Are they different? Yes they are. It is pure theatre ignorance to not aknowledge them both. You dont have to like someone or his style to respect them. Andrew Lloyd Webber deserves the repsect. He took the My Fair Lady era and brought it forward. He was one of the most instrumental people in keeping the art form alive when many said musical theatre was dead. And like Claire Ruth said to the owner of the NY Yankees when he tossed aside Babe Ruth.. " You and all the other owners in the game today should line up and kiss his a**." So, pucker up all ye narrowminded haters.

[Christoph]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 11:03am

To phillyactor:

That was a terrific post and you present some excellent arguments. Of course the effects in Phantom don't have the awe-inspiring power that they had years ago. The show has been playing forever. Yes, it has some dull moments scattered throughout, but it also has some beautiful melodies and, with the right cast, the show can really take flight.

So many people on this board seem to take every opportunity to slam ALW and use it as a stepping stone to make their umpteenth bid to proclaim the god-like status of Sondheim. It has really become wearying. Phantom has been playing forever because there are people who love it and keep coming back. For instance, my ex-boss who was as far from a musical theater enthusiast as you can get found the show incredible and returned to see it five times over the years. Good theater crosses boundaries like that and appeals to even those outside of the normal audience. The returning audiences may not be posting on this particular board, but that still does not negate the fact that it is a much-loved popular musical. And it is also true that it is one of several shows that helped put behinds back in the seats when Broadway was scrambling for purchase, and it continues to do so.

Is everything ALW does golden? Absolutely not. Am I a fan? No more so than I am of Sondheim. But then (as discussed in an earlier thread), Sondheim has his sound detractors and has made some major missteps as well. The truth is (and this will give theater snobs/Sondheim fanatics heartburn), ALW and Sondheim shows are closer in quality than their die-hard fanatics would ever want to admit. ALW did a lot to revitalize the modern musical theater and deserves some credit for keeping it alive, even if you do not particularly care for his work. To hear Sondheim fans go on, ALW's contributions were negligible and anything that is wrong with modern musical theater is laid at his door. To that I say, if you don't appreciate the path modern musical theater has taken, then simply don't go, give the rest of us that are getting some enjoyment out of it a relief and stop denigrating anyone who doesn't wax wistful over the genius IQ of the latest Sondheim lyric.
Updated On: 7/14/06 at 11:03 AM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 1:10pm

**KEEP QUIET, SPIDEY . . . KEEP QUIET!!!***

[theevilgumby]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 1:51pm

well as one of the new ushers at phantom. I can tell you the majority is not all tourists. Most are tri state people who are coming back many many many times. So be bitter or what not but Phantom and ALW have many fans and the show is still go so amazingly strong its not gonna go anywhere for a long while. IMO Phantom and EVITA and excellent shows with the rest of his productions IMO being pretty bad. But unlike many peoples Idea tourists are not making phantom gross 800,000+ plus a week.

Sorry to inform ya

[AshleyBrownFan123]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 1:53pm

It's still playing? SHOCKER!

Updated On: 7/14/06 at 01:53 PM

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 2:15pm

You know, I come from Philadelphia very close to the Italian section of South Philly. There used to be this old saying, "If a person says they are in the mafia, they aren'.t" The way that some in these boards find it necessary to show us how " clever and brilliant" they are with repeated Sondheim orgasms and Webber bashings makes me wonder if the same holds true. Are they trying to make up for their LACK of insight by proclaiming so vehemenetly the love FOR it? I would hazard a guess that some of these Sondheim worshippers in all actuality don't even have a clue of the actual depth of Sondheim and his lyrics, but rather could only scratch the surface of what ACTUALLY makes a SOndeheim show genius. Sondheim bases his shows on interpersonal relationships and the complex realities that come with. I wonder how some of these posters fare with such fodder when they probably have never even BEEN in a relationship...and no, the the fanatatic love and picture of your favorite Broadway star on the wall does NOT count as a relationship with him/her.

[Sally]

Posted: 7/14/06 at 6:33pm

I'm tempted to say, "You go! phillyactor"....but that is so juvenile, that I won't.

[ruthiefan_felix]

Posted: 7/15/06 at 2:19am

I definitely think ALW is influencal to the theatre world, esp to spreading musicals globally. This is because his music is easy to take in and most of them are quite light and poppy. And to be honest, quite alot of his musicals doesnt really have a gd book. I find his earlier works better and as he gets famous, ppl kinda go into the theatre because "It's ALW, it's gd!' feeling. ALW's musicals have ALOT of varieties and tat I do respect.
But I personally feel that ALW are kinda the starters of a meal. It's for one to get the gest of what musicals are like and get the interest. And composers like Sondheim, JRB, for me are the main course.
*sorry for all the food implications, just finished eating! lol*

[Forester]

Posted: 7/15/06 at 4:19am

Giacomo Puccini is still pissed. So is Roger Water.