Pippin DVD questions (and the show in general)

Posted: 1/15/07 at 10:28pm

I foudn the Pippin DVD for 4 bucks (!) by chance so had to pick it up although I still had a taped from TV copy on video. A few questions

i've never seen pippin live but did read the published libretto some ten years back when I first was getting into Bob Fosse and it in Jr High. Can someone go thru and say what exactlyw as cut from the video (obviously I Guess I'll Miss the Man was--and I believe duck song and the talking head?) and at what points theyw ere at?

The cuts were made for tv/video--not for the staged tour right? so was the cut film deleted or lost? seems odd it couldn't be put back in for the DVD

Also... I hope this isn't just my copy fo the video but the sound and especially image quality SUCKS. I don't remember the video looking any better but I thought some restoration woulda been done (though this is VCI DVDs we're talking about--a tiny label for cheap releases). I know it was shot on video (i think) but so was Sweeney Todd, the same year 1982 and that loosk surprisingly great on DVD

Still, and I know many have problems with Pippin on video I gotta say it's nice to even have it on DVD--I sorta expecte dit to never get a release--even in edit. I think the cast is nearly all great--even "stunt" casting like William Katt in the lead or Martha Raye as the grandma. Yeah the filming of the stage show isn't as good as some other filmed shows--but it's not as awful as some think (the hopeless edits aside)--though some odd shots from *behind* dancers in the orgy are awful--but I get a good sense of the choreography, staging and sets (which I *love*)

Pippin has such a weird kinda spooky feeling to me, in its original production (not so much in the more charming show I suspect Schwartz envisioned--and indeed that the cast album often makes me think the show is). Very sinister--all the watching loomign faces (of the chorus and in the sets) and of course the theme nearly being basically about suicide--I lvoe that aspect about it but it's somethign that few critics at the time seemed to catch on to--seeing it all as empty, cheary, sex and bawdy humour spectacle.

Any other tidbits about how this production, while staged in Toornto no less, got to be filmed when so few shows, especially by Fosse were then?

al;so the tour itself--had it been touring since the early/mid 70s or was ia new tour for hte ealry 80s and is it basically the original staging sets? or changed/toned down?

Thanks guys--sorry for all the questions

[jerseygurl]

Posted: 1/15/07 at 10:40pm

it was filmed in hamilton, ontario. rehearsed (in nyc) and produced just for those few performances and filming. kathy doby did the staging although bobby came in to polish. hilly elkins and david sheehan were the producers but all of the original designers and stage managers were there. it was a wild and good time although didn't have anything on the original neither bobby or kathy did the edit and no one was very happy with the result. but it has a lot of real original staging and direction in it which makes it valuable archival material. ben and chita were wonderful.

Posted: 1/15/07 at 11:35pm

Having been to Hamilton I shoulda remembered that... But that's even more random! Why was it staged and recorded in Hamilton of all places! So *very* weird and random to me. (wasn't the Magic Show video recording also taped in Hamilton actually?)

I assume much of the sets and costumes, they had in storage (?) so didn't have to be recreated for it but still seems weird--some years after the fact.

Anyway I agree with all your comments (so the staged version though was the full version--not what was filmed?)

[Pippin]

Posted: 1/15/07 at 11:41pm

this should help:
info on the Pippin video

Posted: 1/16/07 at 12:31am

Man I should learn to use that search feature--i've heard very mixed things about the recent Godspeed revival...

Anyway so 23 full minutes were cut. hrmm. I thought maybe it was done to fit it into a commercial tv timeslot but cuz it was on Showtime there is no excuse
Updated On: 1/16/07 at 12:31 AM

Posted: 1/16/07 at 2:26am

Also any infoon why it was such a disastrous flop in London?

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 1/16/07 at 10:06am

The 'special' production was filmed for a Showtime cable special in 1982 at the Hamilton Place Theatre in Ontario, Canada. Bob Fosse's original choreography, staging and direction was recreated by his long-time assistant, Kathryn Doby, who was also in the original Broadway company. Though Bob Fosse was originally contracted to recreate his work for this taping, since he was working on another project, he trusted Kathryn to recreate his work. She sent him videotapes of the rehearsals for his inspection and suggestions, and during the last week of rehearsals, he went up to Canada and tightened the show. Unfortunately, the PIPPIN contract for the television production gave the special's producer, David Sheehan, full artistic control of the final cut, not Bob Fosse.

Though the full and complete show was indeed filmed, after many disagreements between Sheehan and Fosse regarding editing, etc. Sheehan's staff erased 23-minutes of the show, hence why the show is truncated on the video/DVD. Since Bob Fosse had no control over the final cut, there was nothing he could do.

Bob Fosse was so upset that he sent letters to the cast of the taped PIPPIN production, apologizing for the finished product, explaining that he didn't have final say in the final cut. He tried to stop the airing of the special, but to no avail.

And there is the correct info, which I hope helped clear-up alot of misconceptions with this taped production of PIPPIN.

Any other questions regarding anything related to Bob Fosse and his work, just ask away.

[SimpleJoysHaveSimpleVoice]

Posted: 1/16/07 at 4:06pm

23 minutes edited from the production, why? What was Sheehan looking to do?

The DVD I have has good video quality. And there are visable edits in the sequence of the show.

Posted: 1/16/07 at 4:45pm

Rewatching--the video quality is ok you're right. It's just obviously from an older videotape--which makes sense, I guess I was spoiled by the restoration done on the videotaped, from aroudn the same era, DVD release of Sweeney Todd

[elmore3003]

Posted: 1/16/07 at 6:03pm

Simplejoyshavesimplevoice asked:

23 minutes edited from the production, why? What was Sheehan looking to do?

God knows what he was trying to do, but the fact that he allowed the original tapes to be erased is criminal. It's one thing to edit the show for broadcast but to eliminate the deleted footage and prevent a complete document of the production is criminal.

Posted: 1/16/07 at 6:37pm

I have no real reason for tryign to excuse such a horrible mistake--but it could have been a mistake--it seems fairly, sadly, common that such material is accidentally erased, burned, or destoyed after being edited out of movies and video recordings

Posted: 1/16/07 at 7:27pm

Oh one more question--when were the lyrics changed for With You?? Sometime during the Broadway run?

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 1/16/07 at 7:29pm

I finally saw the show for the first time on Tour last week--I loved it! I really loved the "new" ending--just reading about the old ending, it sounds very unsatisfactory. Shame the tour is over. It's my Mom's favorite musical and she hasn't seen it since the original Broadway run.

[SimpleJoysHaveSimpleVoice]

Posted: 1/16/07 at 11:16pm

The new ending is very good. But, you still can't beat the "Ta-Daa" ending! Thank you Bob Fosse.

[sondhead]

Posted: 1/17/07 at 1:03am

What is it with Fosse and endings? Sweet Charity anyone?

Posted: 1/17/07 at 3:51am

He's one of those people, like (arguably) Sondheim who does superb shows that often don't quite come together/work at their conclusion (I guess I mean Hal Prince/Sondheim shows from Company to PO--not Sweeney)

E

[Moogi]

Posted: 1/17/07 at 6:33am

How is the new ending different?

Posted: 1/17/07 at 8:18pm

I believe the Leading Player basically goes after Pippin's song--sorta continuing the chain

[SimpleJoysHaveSimpleVoice]

Posted: 1/17/07 at 8:35pm

Moogi...the new ending has Catherine's son singing the chorus of "Corner of the Sky" and the Leading Player and ensemble come back on stage to entice him. Pippin and Catherine watch in fear at a distance.

Posted: 1/18/07 at 1:16am

While I find even Fosse's great concept for Pippin as a bit mixed (ie is everyone meant to be an actor except Pippin? etc) if your eally try to analyze it I'm not sure where the new ending fits in with all that