Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).
Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).
Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#1
Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:05pm
So, people sing Sondheim's songs quite often.
BUT. I'm wondering, is it necessary for him to approve each and every time?
The issue I mean, is that he said to Betty Buckley he didn't like what she does(did?) with 'his music', but since she has recorded across multiple albums and he would have listened to some of her performances before recording some new[his] material, don't you think he would 'forbid' her to record it?
Also consider other examples: Mandy Patinkin Sings Sondheim. Assuming Sondheim does have problems with it (I can't see why he wouldn't), why did he let Mandy record that concert?
Is he just being submissive to get more recordings of his shows/royalties/protect friendships or whatnot? Or does he have no say in who and how people record his songs?
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#2
Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:13pm
According to Buckley, his issue is that his songs aren't part of the Great American Songbook, so he doesn't want major alterations to them. She and her jazz band totally rearrange them, and sometimes make the song almost unrecognizable.
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#2
Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:22pm
Laura Michelle sings a very light/airy/poppy "Losing my Mind" on her 2005 Album "The STorm Inside"...so it still apparently happens today...
And the question I still have is :P, why does it happen?
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#3
Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:32pm
"She and her jazz band totally rearrange them, and sometimes make the song almost unrecognizable. "
Then what about that Sondheim jazz album that is out there? He approved the album.
http://www.amazon.com/Color-Light-Jazz-Sketches-Sondheim/dp/B000002AUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1258165892&sr=1-1
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#4
Posted: 11/13/09 at 10:06pmSondheim does not necessarily mind huge reworkings- remember, he loved Harry Chapin's "Marry Me A Little."
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#5
Posted: 11/13/09 at 10:09pmHe didn't forbid her from singing them though, just said he didn't like the version or whatever. He's been pretty good in the past with allowing people to interpret his songs even if he doesn't necesarily approve (this isn't the same as letting people do his shows with major changes, of course...)
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#6
Posted: 11/13/09 at 10:20pm
I've actually wondered about this before, but it was in relation to licensing for TV and movies. I don't think he cares anymore when someone wants to use Tonight in their show, but what if it's in something he personally disagrees with? Does he have some quality control person that double-checks with him on questionable requests?
Though I would love to imagine he personally approved the use of Everything's Coming Up Roses in the kiddie pageant documentary Painted Babies, because the irony was priceless.
Wanting life but never knowing how
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#7
Posted: 11/13/09 at 11:08pm
Don't forget the Pet Shop Boys' version of "Losing My Mind".
I think Sondheim has been one of the most covered writers ever. Look how many versions of Send In The Clowns there are.
I imagine that Sondheim has an agent whose only job is to license the music. I wonder if Sondheim has any say in how it's used or whether he just gave general guidelines and lets the agent handle the requests.
Broadway Star Joined: 10/19/09
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#8
Posted: 11/13/09 at 11:25pm
If the song's author still OWNS the rights to his or her song, they can refuse to allow licensing.
If they've sold away the rights to a third party (i.e. HFA), then they have absolutely no say in the matter.
There is a specific license you must apply for, however, to rearrange and/or change a song. So you're essentially signing for two different licenses (for the same song) - and they both cost money.
It's kind of confusing and ultimately depends on the circumstances of ownership, their policies, and what changes are made!
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#9
Posted: 11/14/09 at 12:34am
Money. Money. Money.
He gets a paycheck and knows nobody's going to blame him for Mandy's weird versions of his songs (like changing the lyrics to "Buddy's Eyes" to, what was it, "In Someone's Eyes"?) or anyone else for that matter. He knows that their core audience already knows what the original should sound like. Why put up a fight? Get the check and let them take the blame. Have you ever heard a bad version of a SOndheim song recorded and blamed him? No. I'm sure there are actors in his shows he doesn't approve of. He knows when to pick his battles and trying to forbid Buckley from recording a song probably isn't work the tiem and energy.
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#10
Posted: 11/14/09 at 1:40am
"If the song's author still OWNS the rights to his or her song, they can refuse to allow licensing."
This is incorrect. It doesn't matter who owns the rights; whether it's the original composer or not, you do not have to get permission to cover a song. The one and only right the composer has is to say who gets to record the song FIRST. After that, the song becomes fair game and anyone who wants to record and release it can do so.
Of course that doesn't mean you don't have to pay for the privilege. I believe right now the going rate is 9.1 cents per song per CD. So if you released an album with 10 songs on it, and you wrote 9 of them but had to have 1 Sondheim song on there, you would have to pay him $45.50 to print 500 CDs, which is the minimum.
It's a little old, but there's a well-written article about this kind of thing here: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/290/must-you-get-permission-to-record-someone-elses-song
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#11
Posted: 11/14/09 at 1:57am
|He gets a paycheck and knows nobody's going to blame him for Mandy's weird versions of his songs (like changing the lyrics to "Buddy's Eyes" to, what was it, "In Someone's Eyes"?) or anyone else for that matter. He knows that their core audience already knows what the original should sound like. Why put up a fight? Get the check and let them take the blame. Have you ever heard a bad version of a SOndheim song recorded and blamed him? No. I'm sure there are actors in his shows he doesn't approve of. He knows when to pick his battles and trying to forbid Buckley from recording a song probably isn't work the tiem and energy. |
I think that's spot on.He also gets that more often than not either it will expose his stuff to people who won't know his stuff, if they like it, or if they don't, as you said, he'll not get the blame.
But yeah songs can be covered for the right price by nearly everyone. That's a reason why Dave Stewart can say he hated Marilyn Manson singing Sweet Dreams but couldn't stop it
Broadway Star Joined: 10/19/09
re: Question about 'covering' songs (Sondheim's for this example).#12
Posted: 11/14/09 at 9:00pm
"This is incorrect. It doesn't matter who owns the rights; whether it's the original composer or not, you do not have to get permission to cover a song. The one and only right the composer has is to say who gets to record the song FIRST. After that, the song becomes fair game and anyone who wants to record and release it can do so. "
Horribly incorrect.
For example, Stephen Schwartz is a primary owner in his publishing company (something to the tune of GreyDog?) and therefore is absolutely allowed to reject any license request that is submitted to the licensor.
The same may be said for someone like Scott Alan who still holds core ownership of his copyrighted material but uses a third party (in this case, Sendroff & Baruch as reps) for the contractual agreements. He can turn around to his lawyer and refuse to sign a Mechanical License... for whatever reason. It is his choice. Completely.
DooWah - you used an online article for reference. I'm using a lifetime of experience for reference. Let me know if you have any other questions!
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