#51
Posted: 1/30/05 at 8:59pm
I haven't mentioned nudity nor cannibalism in AT LEAST 10 posts....
but speaking of which.....
but speaking of which.....
Revising Wicked — Page 3
#52
Posted: 1/31/05 at 3:49am
In response to seasons of love, I think that you can still get away with the show being "family friendly" without giving a dumb blonde more lines. She's funny, but it hurts the character development of Elphaba when you take time away from her to give Glinda opera moments and funny bits. Once they take away a little Glinda, they can justify the Elphaba/Fiyero relationship, develop the time clock, fix the animal cruelty situation, etc. They also need to cut one of the two Wizard songs. That's another moment where it was obvious that they thought, "Wow we've got this famous Broadway vet, we need to give him some songs." They really don't develop him as a character, and we fall in love with the person PLAYING the Wizard, not necessarilly the CHARACTER of the Wizard. But I do think that the whole show was a little too Disney-fied for my liking. It's fine a lighten the stage version from the book, but it's not more of a mass-media show than a really well developed and moving show.
Eeeeeeyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaannnnnddddd aaaaaaaiiiiiiiiyyyyyyaaaaaammmmmmmm teeeeeeeelllllliiiiiinnngg yyyyooooooouuuuuuuwwwaaaahh...
#53
Posted: 1/31/05 at 5:03am
I think they either need to develop the character of the wizard more or less (if that makes sense). he's too developed to be just a sideline, but not develpoed enough to be a supporting character. they also need to give fiyero more development. and DEFINITELY give boq/nessa more development/stage time.
AKA Idina Pashmina
Type_A_Tiff: There's nothing hard about her. Broadway_star_tomorrow: Yeah. Her arteries.
Type_A_Tiff: There's nothing hard about her. Broadway_star_tomorrow: Yeah. Her arteries.
#54
Posted: 1/31/05 at 5:15am
I don't think many of these ideas are possible. They had to squeeze this huge story into a couple of hours and it was dumbed down in the process. The also needed to appeal to the masses and a dark, dreary storyline just doesn't have the same pull. They had to drag in a few stereotypes because most of us don't have the intellectual understanding to disassemble a multidimensional character who expresses an array of emotions like normal human beings. Oh, and of course we can't forget to make the entire cast beautiful because we won't watch someone who isn't physically appealing. YES! The perfect musical... Wicked...
Of course I'm not completely serious. I love Wicked.
Of course I'm not completely serious. I love Wicked.
#55
Posted: 1/31/05 at 11:18am
Well yeah, its completely understandable as to WHY they made the changes they did from book to stage but I think what these suggestions are for is if we could unrealistically mold the perfect show.
Yeah I agree that they need to take away a few Glinda moments. Kristin got practically all the attention when reviews came out and her character got all the funny bits in the show plus some huge opera solos. They were beautiful solos and I loved the Glinda scenes but one thing I think the show COULD realistically change is making the story more about Elphaba hence the name Wicked. At this point they might as well call the show Popular.
Yeah I agree that they need to take away a few Glinda moments. Kristin got practically all the attention when reviews came out and her character got all the funny bits in the show plus some huge opera solos. They were beautiful solos and I loved the Glinda scenes but one thing I think the show COULD realistically change is making the story more about Elphaba hence the name Wicked. At this point they might as well call the show Popular.
I wanted to get something that an "ex"-junkie like him would really appreciate and cherish....it's a brick of heroin shaped like a heart.
-Scrubs
#56
Posted: 1/31/05 at 12:24pm
having seen the show first and read the book second (which puts me in the minority, i know) i think most of the characterization works like a standard musical, so it's accessible. Nessa and Boq need a bit more, but i did follow the Fiyero/Elphaba/Galinda triangle fine as a first time viewer.
Structure-wise, what i'd do is take out the "Chenowith specialty" at the beginning. For me, the show didn't really kick into gear until the flashback started. it sounded pretty, the Chenowith high notes were thrilling, but you couldn't catch a lyric. And i'm used to Sondheim lyrics, so i'm not slow at them. Traditional song format from operetta on is for the melody to be stated in a register where the ear can follow it, and then it might be repeated by a chorus while the obligato for the soprano ornaments on top. In WICKED, it starts out with so much ornamentation, and the chord structure is atonal so it sounds "modern", and the result is a mix which can be confusing and uninviting for a first time listener.
Modern musicals are notoriously hard to start, to get an engine going for the evening. i wish i had a solution for how to introduce a conventional audience to WICKED as a musical, but i don't---i'm just saying what i saw didn't seem that effective to me.
Structure-wise, what i'd do is take out the "Chenowith specialty" at the beginning. For me, the show didn't really kick into gear until the flashback started. it sounded pretty, the Chenowith high notes were thrilling, but you couldn't catch a lyric. And i'm used to Sondheim lyrics, so i'm not slow at them. Traditional song format from operetta on is for the melody to be stated in a register where the ear can follow it, and then it might be repeated by a chorus while the obligato for the soprano ornaments on top. In WICKED, it starts out with so much ornamentation, and the chord structure is atonal so it sounds "modern", and the result is a mix which can be confusing and uninviting for a first time listener.
Modern musicals are notoriously hard to start, to get an engine going for the evening. i wish i had a solution for how to introduce a conventional audience to WICKED as a musical, but i don't---i'm just saying what i saw didn't seem that effective to me.
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
#57
Posted: 1/31/05 at 12:29pm
"The whole cruelty to animals thing...thats kind of a weak part..."
It's not trying to make a statement about cruelty to animals. It's another way of pointing out prejudice. It's not just entertainment. It tries to have a message in the hopes that we learn something about ourselves and then bring about change.
Stop looking at the surface.
It's not trying to make a statement about cruelty to animals. It's another way of pointing out prejudice. It's not just entertainment. It tries to have a message in the hopes that we learn something about ourselves and then bring about change.
Stop looking at the surface.
#58
Posted: 1/31/05 at 1:25pm
I never thought of it that way
CAGES OR WINGS? WHICH DO YOU PREFER? ASK THE BIRDS. FEAR OR LOVE, BABY? DON'T SAY THE ANSWER, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
#59
Posted: 1/31/05 at 6:07pm
Like some have said, Fyiero liking Elphaba is there but it's just kinda subtle. I like it but see the standpoint of it being fleshed out more.
I like Glinda's role in the show because I remember when I first saw it, I walked away liking Glinda but thinking there was more to her, more evil. I think evil is the wrong word but it was so easy to overlook her involvement in a lot of the things that go wrong in Oz but she plays a bigger part to me than Elphaba. Like Glinda was the one who pushed Boq onto Nessa, aiding the obsession, which ultimately lead to his transformation. She sets up Elphaba to be captured by using Nessa and even though she doesn't mean for her to die, she does but that trap also leads to Fyiero's downfall. It's so easy to be like Elphaba did this and that but I think we're suppose to see more into it. Or well at least I do. I also I think it depends on who's playing Glinda because with Kristen, she really stepped up the part and made it impossible for me to walk away without thinking Elphaba and Glinda as leads but after she left, yes, Glinda's part is big but it really became Elphaba's story, to me at least.
I understand why the musical is not so much centered around the book. People go into Wicked knowing more about the Wizard of Oz the movie and not Wicked the book or the wizard of oz the book. Everyone knows about the latter but more people are familiar with the movie. Honestly, people don't care about the Time clock dragon. You could make them care but that's not effective. Wicked plays on people's beliefs. This was/is Glinda. This was/is Elphaba or The Wicked Witch of the West. We all accepted that without ever questioning it. Though the Wizard's songs aren't my favorite. They are pretty crucial and they did cut some of the Wizards songs because he had more in the beginning. But Wonderful pretty much embodies everything in a nutshell about both Wicked the book and musical. The politics. How we view people or easily believe whatever we are told and etc. One thing I do miss is the whole interaction between Nessa and Elphaba before The Wicked Witch of the East song. I thought that dialogue really helped show more about their relationship as sisters.
And Tom1071 said it perfectly about Wicked---people are looking too much at the surface and not within. I by no means think the musical is perfect. I remember having issues with some parts at first (and though some still remain) a lot of those issues I fixed myself by actually thinking about them and connecting the dots. Wicked's not that walk in the park musical some make it out to be and because everything's not spelled out, you can miss stuff.
just my opinions... sorry it's so long!
I like Glinda's role in the show because I remember when I first saw it, I walked away liking Glinda but thinking there was more to her, more evil. I think evil is the wrong word but it was so easy to overlook her involvement in a lot of the things that go wrong in Oz but she plays a bigger part to me than Elphaba. Like Glinda was the one who pushed Boq onto Nessa, aiding the obsession, which ultimately lead to his transformation. She sets up Elphaba to be captured by using Nessa and even though she doesn't mean for her to die, she does but that trap also leads to Fyiero's downfall. It's so easy to be like Elphaba did this and that but I think we're suppose to see more into it. Or well at least I do. I also I think it depends on who's playing Glinda because with Kristen, she really stepped up the part and made it impossible for me to walk away without thinking Elphaba and Glinda as leads but after she left, yes, Glinda's part is big but it really became Elphaba's story, to me at least.
I understand why the musical is not so much centered around the book. People go into Wicked knowing more about the Wizard of Oz the movie and not Wicked the book or the wizard of oz the book. Everyone knows about the latter but more people are familiar with the movie. Honestly, people don't care about the Time clock dragon. You could make them care but that's not effective. Wicked plays on people's beliefs. This was/is Glinda. This was/is Elphaba or The Wicked Witch of the West. We all accepted that without ever questioning it. Though the Wizard's songs aren't my favorite. They are pretty crucial and they did cut some of the Wizards songs because he had more in the beginning. But Wonderful pretty much embodies everything in a nutshell about both Wicked the book and musical. The politics. How we view people or easily believe whatever we are told and etc. One thing I do miss is the whole interaction between Nessa and Elphaba before The Wicked Witch of the East song. I thought that dialogue really helped show more about their relationship as sisters.
And Tom1071 said it perfectly about Wicked---people are looking too much at the surface and not within. I by no means think the musical is perfect. I remember having issues with some parts at first (and though some still remain) a lot of those issues I fixed myself by actually thinking about them and connecting the dots. Wicked's not that walk in the park musical some make it out to be and because everything's not spelled out, you can miss stuff.
just my opinions... sorry it's so long!
#60
Posted: 1/31/05 at 7:57pm
i couldn't agree with nstar more! the emotion of the show is much more deep then it seems at first. even though i had quibbles with the plotting and pacing, i couldn't remembr the last time i was so moved at a show.
#61
Posted: 1/31/05 at 10:18pm
bjivie- true...
nstar makes a lot of good points!
nstar makes a lot of good points!
"I am unfinished- I am diminished
With or without you..."
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