Riedel: Bebe B'way house of horror- Page 2

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 2:31pm

Yero, you take the gross minus the weekly operating expenses and you have $X (say $350k/week possibly for this show). Before a show recoups, that amount is usually divided 35% (creative)/65%(back to investors). After recoup, this number changes a bit and the lead producer take a cut from the investor side. I didn't account for the creative side (the 35%) when I first said that they should be already $5M in, which made my number lower.

I know very well how it works, thank you.

I was pointing out that that information, while (mostly) correct, is irrelevant in this particular discussion. Fosse said that they can't pay off the investment with advance sales, to which you replied, "Oh, that's right, I forgot about the creative side." Which has absolutely nothing at all to do with what we are talking about.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 2:52pm

How about giving her a better story arch for her character? How about writing her a few more laughs?

Perhaps because she's been a raging bitch? Word on the street in Chicago was the she was just a miserable pill.

[MissAnneThrop]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 3:02pm

didn't Chita do Spider Woman, Nine and Chicago (as Roxie) all post accident?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 3:19pm

Somebody being cold and distant isn't what I'd describe as a "house of horror."

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 3:34pm

"didn't Chita do Spider Woman, Nine and Chicago (as Roxie) all post accident?"

Sure she did, and Bebe did Chicago as Roxie after her hip replacement. Also bear in mind there's a big difference between even a badly broken leg and a hip replacement, especially for a dancer. Bone breaks heal. A replaced hip will change your life forever.

"Perhaps because she's been a raging bitch?"

You know, I think Bebe gets a bad rap. I've always found her to be a very nice person. A perfectionist, sure, and not afraid to speak her mind. I've always seen her treat crew and cast alike with respect. I can't say the same about Lane. I don't understand why Ms Neuwirth is being cast as the bitch and the has-been here. Besides, we're taking all this from Riedel? Give the man a molehill and he's sure to make a mountain of it. Not saying there probably isn't a kernel of truth in his column, but then again, he's never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[jamiekennywicked]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 3:37pm

Although we're talking about her backstage at this is sloghtly off topic but is she nice at SD?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 3:52pm

Yes. She brings out cookies and cider.

[lulu10]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 3:54pm

I'm really getting tired of Michael Riedel's gossip. Don’t try to ruin a reputation with unnamed sources. Whenever I read his columns, the only thing I see is “…said a source…”, “…one person said…”, “…a smart producer said…”. Seriously? If this is the best he can do, I don’t think we should worry about the show – I think we should worry about what we accept for journalism.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 3:57pm

"I'm really getting tired of Michael Riedel's gossip. Don’t try to ruin a reputation with unnamed sources. Whenever I read his columns,...."

Solution: don't read his column.

[theaterkid1015]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 4:10pm

On Bebe at stagedoor: Very polite. Definitely not the warmest person, but not rude. Don't ask for a picture, though. She never poses, she will tell you that herself if you ask. Again, politely, not rudely but not warmly.

I love her as a performer. She did a solo concert in Pittsburgh two years ago, and I was blown away. I didn't know about the hip replacement, but she was still in amazing shape when I saw her. So, even if she can't quite dance the way she used to, I'll bet she can still do plenty.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 4:11pm

didn't Chita do Spider Woman, Nine and Chicago (as Roxie) all post accident?

Yup... and that did NOTHING to her dancing. So much so that she even DANCED with her cast on at the Tony Awards a few months after this car accident.

Here's Chita dancing YEARS after her leg crushing accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUQlQGH1fhc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph0Xi5secgA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP2hDhOKLbo

[bethnor]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 4:20pm

i didn't know bebe had a hip replacement.

it is a different bag of beans, mostly because there's a fair chance she will need another. though i'm a bit removed from my orthopaedics.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 4:25pm

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse and I know each person's body reacts differently to injury but Chita's left leg was broken in 12 places. she had 18 screws inserted and two braces.
A hip replacement is meant to releive pain and suffering.
My point was that a great choreographer uses the dancer's strengths and weaknesses to their best advantage.
Chita would have been a great Morticia in the day.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 4:28pm

News about Bebe's 2006 hip replacement:

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2007/01/06/bebe_neuwirth_gets_a_new_hip_returns_to_

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117972039.html?categoryid=2680&cs=1

[devonian.t]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 4:33pm

I don't think she is any more under-used than most of the cast. It is second rate material and only Lane has anything distinctive. She has plenty of stage time though.

[lizliz]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 6:24pm

But the show is being presented with Bebe and Nathan as the two big stars, and their parts don't come across to the audience as at all equal.

Part of this is because of the fact that they can't seem to find much for Morticia to do in the first act (and a couple of the things she does do sound dreadful). They use Bebe much better in the second act, but by then it's already Nathan's show.

[bethnor]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 6:38pm

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse and I know each person's body reacts differently to injury but Chita's left leg was broken in 12 places.

but you seemed to miss ghostlight's point, which is that it is not a matter of how a person's body reacts; it is a matter of apples and oranges. chita was in a car accident and her hardware was presumably removed at some point. bebe got a hip replacement presumably from wear and tear--and part of the treatment for that would be stop the wearing and tearing! now i'm sure bebe can afford the best, but no one should go on the chopping block any more than necessary.

[best12bars]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 6:44pm

Why does Morticia have to be a great singer? They're not adapting the role to the star they cast. If they wanted a fantastic singer in this part, then don't cast Bebe. But if you want "Bebe Neuwirth" in your show, then make her look good. That's your job when you're creating a new play or musical. You work with your cast's strengths. You pick the person that best suits your vision for role and then you collaborate with them in finding this "new character."

Every well known, well loved, musical composer you can think of has done that ... Sondheim, Styne, Rodgers, Porter, Kander & Ebb, Herman. Now you have a current crop of composers who can't do it. Or won't do it. It's all "big picture" now.

Another "generic production" based on something we all know. They're not writing for personalities or stars anymore. It could be Bebe Neuwirth or Joyce DeWit or Abe Vigoda in the part. They don't care. They want a "franchise" that can run for 20 years and have anybody in the part.

I can't say I blame her for being a bitch (if it's true). She's not the first and won't be the last Diva on Broadway. But even if this is true, why would you deliberately cut your own throat by making her look bad. Fire her, if you want to, and find the right actress/star. Or rise to the occasion and work with her. But to cut her songs, her laughs, and give her generic crap is inexcusable. It's called bad writing and bad direction. And it completely reflects negatively on this "fast food" creative team for not working with the personalities they hired.

And the sad thing is this show is ALL about the personalities. It's a character-driven premise with incidental and/or episodic plot(s). But these iconic Charles Addams characters and the actors portraying them ARE the show ... or should be.

What a waste of talent, and what a sign of the times.

[musicalsFan]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 7:54pm

Completely agree with everything best12bars wrote above!

Posted: 3/19/10 at 8:45pm

Abe Vigoda as Morticia- is that the tour? Have you heard something?

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/19/10 at 11:41pm

Well put Best12. I'm trying to think of the last star vehicle written or tailored for a Broadway Vet. I would believe that THE PRODUCERS changed a lot in rehearsals because of Nathan and Matthew but then look what happened after they left, HELLO DOLLY was obviously Channinged once they cast her. But as Best said, they don't create em like they used to. Nathan, like him or not, and I do, knows what works for him.

I got Ghostlight's point about hip replacement and I agree they are apples and oranges. Hasn't Liza had like three hip replacements? My dad got one when he could hardly walk in his 80's and 6 months later he was walking like a 70 year old.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/10 at 12:55am

I would say that the "tailoring" of Glinda to Christian Chenowitzz is exactly what destroyed the dramaturgy of that show by making the bad guy a mostly-good guy who makes a couple of mistakes. And now they have to live with that forever and ever and ever and the money comes rolling in. So, so much for show art, I guess.

[alterego]

Posted: 3/20/10 at 6:58am

When talking about the advance for a show, don't forget this includes the group bookings which have been purchased on a sale or return basis. If no one wants them after the reviews come out those tickets will be returned to the box office.

[once a month]

Posted: 3/20/10 at 10:51am

The show last night was quite enjoyable...once you get past the silly plot and mediocre songs. The audience seemed to love it and there was much in the production to keep it interesting. Loved Bebe and Nathan...Chamberlin as Fester was a big delight. Hoffman seemed forced, unlike Xanadu or Hairspray.

I had a hell of a lot better time here than in Young Frankenstein or 9 to 5. I also enjoyed Newirth as much in this as in Chicago, and moreso than in Here Lies Jenny or Sweet Charity.

Although I spent full price for a ticket in row Q, I'm happy I saw the show. I could care less who is being bitchy back stage....it's a non-issue. I look forward to hearing of future preview changes.

[averagebwaynut]

Posted: 3/20/10 at 10:54am

AlterEgo -- that is actually incorrect on a few counts.

Once paid, group tickets are virtually always subject to the same "no refund, no exchange" policies that apply to single tickets. There is no "return basis". Therefore, groups that have purchased tickets for "Addams" or any other show are stuck with those seats once they are paid for in full. They are not able to return them to the box office post-reviews.

What I believe you are referring to is what is commonly known as "Unpaid Groups", a dollar value which is typically comprised of inquiries by group agents for potential bookings which are as yet unconfirmed by the box office, bookings confirmed by the box office to the group sales agents which require, but do not yet have, a deposit payment or payment in full by a certain deadline, and bookings that have been confirmed and partially paid but are not yet fully paid.

However, a truthful (or at least accurate) producer would not typically include Unpaid Groups in a representation of a show's advance since, as you've noted, that is not "real" money (until the tickets represented by those bookings are paid in full). Yes, producers do often lump in Unpaid Groups with their actual paid advance sales when they are specifically seeking to trumpet their advance (for whatever reason) and make it seem as high as possible. In this instance, however, the figure comes from Riedel so it's really impossible to know what he is or is not including in the figure (or whether he or his sources even know the difference), let alone if it is even accurate.

Either way, though, even if the advance is indeed $15M and even if it does include Unpaid Groups, I doubt that more than 10-15% of that figure is represented by Unpaid Groups, and likely less. The show has been on sale for many months now and typical industry practice would dictate that pending groups would have to cough up their dough or risk losing their bookings by or before first preview or Opening Night. So at this stage of the game, a show's Unpaid Groups would likely be quite low. Those that wanted the show so badly that they were willing to pay for it sight unseen have paid and those that haven't booked yet are either waiting to see it themselves or waiting for reviews. Plus, even if the Unpaid Groups are in fact 10-15%, that still leaves them with a single ticket advance of well over $12M -- nothing to sneeze at (though on some level also meaningless as described earlier in this thread).