Riedel: Bebe B'way house of horror — Page 2

Yero, you take the gross minus the weekly operating expenses and you have $X (say $350k/week possibly for this show). Before a show recoups, that amount is usually divided 35% (creative)/65%(back to investors). After recoup, this number changes a bit and the lead producer take a cut from the investor side. I didn't account for the creative side (the 35%) when I first said that they should be already $5M in, which made my number lower.

I know very well how it works, thank you.

I was pointing out that that information, while (mostly) correct, is irrelevant in this particular discussion. Fosse said that they can't pay off the investment with advance sales, to which you replied, "Oh, that's right, I forgot about the creative side." Which has absolutely nothing at all to do with what we are talking about.

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didn't Chita do Spider Woman, Nine and Chicago (as Roxie) all post accident?

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"didn't Chita do Spider Woman, Nine and Chicago (as Roxie) all post accident?"

Sure she did, and Bebe did Chicago as Roxie after her hip replacement. Also bear in mind there's a big difference between even a badly broken leg and a hip replacement, especially for a dancer. Bone breaks heal. A replaced hip will change your life forever.

"Perhaps because she's been a raging bitch?"

You know, I think Bebe gets a bad rap. I've always found her to be a very nice person. A perfectionist, sure, and not afraid to speak her mind. I've always seen her treat crew and cast alike with respect. I can't say the same about Lane. I don't understand why Ms Neuwirth is being cast as the bitch and the has-been here. Besides, we're taking all this from Riedel? Give the man a molehill and he's sure to make a mountain of it. Not saying there probably isn't a kernel of truth in his column, but then again, he's never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Yes. She brings out cookies and cider.

"I'm really getting tired of Michael Riedel's gossip. Don’t try to ruin a reputation with unnamed sources. Whenever I read his columns,...."

Solution: don't read his column.

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didn't Chita do Spider Woman, Nine and Chicago (as Roxie) all post accident?

Yup... and that did NOTHING to her dancing. So much so that she even DANCED with her cast on at the Tony Awards a few months after this car accident.

Here's Chita dancing YEARS after her leg crushing accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUQlQGH1fhc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph0Xi5secgA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP2hDhOKLbo

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse and I know each person's body reacts differently to injury but Chita's left leg was broken in 12 places. she had 18 screws inserted and two braces.
A hip replacement is meant to releive pain and suffering.
My point was that a great choreographer uses the dancer's strengths and weaknesses to their best advantage.
Chita would have been a great Morticia in the day.

I don't think she is any more under-used than most of the cast. It is second rate material and only Lane has anything distinctive. She has plenty of stage time though.

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse and I know each person's body reacts differently to injury but Chita's left leg was broken in 12 places.

but you seemed to miss ghostlight's point, which is that it is not a matter of how a person's body reacts; it is a matter of apples and oranges. chita was in a car accident and her hardware was presumably removed at some point. bebe got a hip replacement presumably from wear and tear--and part of the treatment for that would be stop the wearing and tearing! now i'm sure bebe can afford the best, but no one should go on the chopping block any more than necessary.

Completely agree with everything best12bars wrote above!

Well put Best12. I'm trying to think of the last star vehicle written or tailored for a Broadway Vet. I would believe that THE PRODUCERS changed a lot in rehearsals because of Nathan and Matthew but then look what happened after they left, HELLO DOLLY was obviously Channinged once they cast her. But as Best said, they don't create em like they used to. Nathan, like him or not, and I do, knows what works for him.

I got Ghostlight's point about hip replacement and I agree they are apples and oranges. Hasn't Liza had like three hip replacements? My dad got one when he could hardly walk in his 80's and 6 months later he was walking like a 70 year old.

When talking about the advance for a show, don't forget this includes the group bookings which have been purchased on a sale or return basis. If no one wants them after the reviews come out those tickets will be returned to the box office.

AlterEgo -- that is actually incorrect on a few counts.

Once paid, group tickets are virtually always subject to the same "no refund, no exchange" policies that apply to single tickets. There is no "return basis". Therefore, groups that have purchased tickets for "Addams" or any other show are stuck with those seats once they are paid for in full. They are not able to return them to the box office post-reviews.

What I believe you are referring to is what is commonly known as "Unpaid Groups", a dollar value which is typically comprised of inquiries by group agents for potential bookings which are as yet unconfirmed by the box office, bookings confirmed by the box office to the group sales agents which require, but do not yet have, a deposit payment or payment in full by a certain deadline, and bookings that have been confirmed and partially paid but are not yet fully paid.

However, a truthful (or at least accurate) producer would not typically include Unpaid Groups in a representation of a show's advance since, as you've noted, that is not "real" money (until the tickets represented by those bookings are paid in full). Yes, producers do often lump in Unpaid Groups with their actual paid advance sales when they are specifically seeking to trumpet their advance (for whatever reason) and make it seem as high as possible. In this instance, however, the figure comes from Riedel so it's really impossible to know what he is or is not including in the figure (or whether he or his sources even know the difference), let alone if it is even accurate.

Either way, though, even if the advance is indeed $15M and even if it does include Unpaid Groups, I doubt that more than 10-15% of that figure is represented by Unpaid Groups, and likely less. The show has been on sale for many months now and typical industry practice would dictate that pending groups would have to cough up their dough or risk losing their bookings by or before first preview or Opening Night. So at this stage of the game, a show's Unpaid Groups would likely be quite low. Those that wanted the show so badly that they were willing to pay for it sight unseen have paid and those that haven't booked yet are either waiting to see it themselves or waiting for reviews. Plus, even if the Unpaid Groups are in fact 10-15%, that still leaves them with a single ticket advance of well over $12M -- nothing to sneeze at (though on some level also meaningless as described earlier in this thread).

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