#51
Posted: 8/7/06 at 10:48pm
It's kind of the point of those scenes, but whatever the director/ producers want to do.
Same-sex kiss banned in Australian version of The Boy From Oz — Page 3
#52
Posted: 8/7/06 at 11:01pm
bump
#53
Posted: 8/8/06 at 12:14am
I'm so pleased that art2 has returned to stimulate meaningful discussion.
'"Contrairiwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."'
~Lewis Carroll
Updated On: 8/8/06 at 12:14 AM
#54
Posted: 8/8/06 at 1:01am
Hugh was so natural portraying Peter Allen's sexual orientation - there was one scene which was not on Broadway, but a frenetic disco era scene ( think Studio 54 ) where he was particularly attracted more to the same sex than to the women. It was a great visual dancing feast.
Also, one of the funniest moments ( seemed very spontaneous) was when Hugh noticed on the closed circuit TV ( the show was being projected on large screens) that the cameraman was particularly focused on his physical attributes, face included. He started showing different mug shots...and then after one funny sloe-eyed pose, he said " Bond...Jane Bond!" and then cracked up ( and making fun of all those gossip linking him with the movie), as we all did -LOL!
I don't know why some people would even think that the show was even slightly homophobic. If so, why were some members of the Rockettes line-up for that dazzling number actually male cast members dressed up as exquisite dancers and high-kicking it up with the rest. And Hugh had a fun time adlibbing about that. All in good fun!
The Aussies really know how to have a good time - with this kind of a show. The laughter, the wolf-whistles, and the roaring ovations were something I have never heard in a theatre - well, maybe because there were 10,000 of us there
Jo
Also, one of the funniest moments ( seemed very spontaneous) was when Hugh noticed on the closed circuit TV ( the show was being projected on large screens) that the cameraman was particularly focused on his physical attributes, face included. He started showing different mug shots...and then after one funny sloe-eyed pose, he said " Bond...Jane Bond!" and then cracked up ( and making fun of all those gossip linking him with the movie), as we all did -LOL!
I don't know why some people would even think that the show was even slightly homophobic. If so, why were some members of the Rockettes line-up for that dazzling number actually male cast members dressed up as exquisite dancers and high-kicking it up with the rest. And Hugh had a fun time adlibbing about that. All in good fun!
The Aussies really know how to have a good time - with this kind of a show. The laughter, the wolf-whistles, and the roaring ovations were something I have never heard in a theatre - well, maybe because there were 10,000 of us there
Jo
Updated On: 8/8/06 at 01:01 AM
#55
Posted: 8/8/06 at 4:44am
Well, forgive me if this has been brought up before, but is there a chance, now with the tour and all, that we will finally get a DVD of this great show and Hugh's unique performance ?
#56
Posted: 8/8/06 at 7:27am
Jo,
All those things you mention (eg the dancers in drag or Hugh saying "I'm Jane Bond" etc) are camp. They are things usually thrown in by timid producers so as to suggest gay-inclusiveness while at the same time avoiding the heart of what being gay really is about. My point to you is that the true meaning of gay is to to be sexually and romantically attracted to someone of the same sex. Peter Allen had a same-sex loving relationship that included physical demonstrations of that love (i.e. a kiss), as shown in the Broadway production.
The use of camp is a tired, coy tactic that may serve its useful purpose, but it doesn't provide the complete picture. At the end of the day, you can agree or disagree with me. But you can't deny that the same-sex kiss has been taken out. Hugh will be sullied by this.
All those things you mention (eg the dancers in drag or Hugh saying "I'm Jane Bond" etc) are camp. They are things usually thrown in by timid producers so as to suggest gay-inclusiveness while at the same time avoiding the heart of what being gay really is about. My point to you is that the true meaning of gay is to to be sexually and romantically attracted to someone of the same sex. Peter Allen had a same-sex loving relationship that included physical demonstrations of that love (i.e. a kiss), as shown in the Broadway production.
The use of camp is a tired, coy tactic that may serve its useful purpose, but it doesn't provide the complete picture. At the end of the day, you can agree or disagree with me. But you can't deny that the same-sex kiss has been taken out. Hugh will be sullied by this.
Updated On: 8/8/06 at 07:27 AM
#57
Posted: 8/8/06 at 8:46am
I don't think Hugh Jackman has too much to worry about.
In regard to all this Aussie homophobia rubbish, Sydney every February plays host to the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras a four week festival which culminates in a street parade which frequently attracts around 350,000 onlookers both straight and gay without any trouble. In view of this Australians would possibly consider America to be a far more homophobic society.
In regard to all this Aussie homophobia rubbish, Sydney every February plays host to the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras a four week festival which culminates in a street parade which frequently attracts around 350,000 onlookers both straight and gay without any trouble. In view of this Australians would possibly consider America to be a far more homophobic society.
#58
Posted: 8/8/06 at 9:26am
Art2,
The point of the show was not about Peter Allen being gay - that was also the case on Broadway ( did you even see it?). It was only coincidental that he was. The show, especially the Aussie show now, has more to do with his joie de vivre philosophy and how this is celebrated in his music. And it is a campy show!
I don't particularly care if there was a kiss or not - what I am saying is it was not necessary to further the story along. I saw the Broadway show probably more times than you did and the kiss in that show wasn't even particularly important in telling the story.
I don't see what you are driving at about me denying the kiss or not. I saw a show with a story to tell and music to celebrate and I am simply saying that it didn't seem important to my appreciation of the show.
Perhaps you may want to go and see the show in Australia first before you pass judgment on what I should think or not.
Jo
The point of the show was not about Peter Allen being gay - that was also the case on Broadway ( did you even see it?). It was only coincidental that he was. The show, especially the Aussie show now, has more to do with his joie de vivre philosophy and how this is celebrated in his music. And it is a campy show!
I don't particularly care if there was a kiss or not - what I am saying is it was not necessary to further the story along. I saw the Broadway show probably more times than you did and the kiss in that show wasn't even particularly important in telling the story.
I don't see what you are driving at about me denying the kiss or not. I saw a show with a story to tell and music to celebrate and I am simply saying that it didn't seem important to my appreciation of the show.
Perhaps you may want to go and see the show in Australia first before you pass judgment on what I should think or not.
Jo
Updated On: 8/8/06 at 09:26 AM
#59
Posted: 8/8/06 at 10:13am
Jo,
The simple fact is that Peter Allen's male lover is in the show but there is no physical interaction in the way of a kiss between him and Allen. That, in my book, is an extraordinary act of omission.
As to your point that the kiss wasn't necessary to further the story along, it's irrelevant. The question you should be asking yourself is how would the kiss have impeded the story. I think you're just trying to cover up for the homophobia that appears to be behind the decision to remove the kiss.
The simple fact is that Peter Allen's male lover is in the show but there is no physical interaction in the way of a kiss between him and Allen. That, in my book, is an extraordinary act of omission.
As to your point that the kiss wasn't necessary to further the story along, it's irrelevant. The question you should be asking yourself is how would the kiss have impeded the story. I think you're just trying to cover up for the homophobia that appears to be behind the decision to remove the kiss.
Updated On: 8/8/06 at 10:13 AM
#60
Posted: 8/8/06 at 10:24am
Why should I cover up for anything?
I am not in any way connected with that show - I was simply part of an audience who appreciated the show's story and how it was told!
Can't you respect other peoples' viewpoints? You believe in what you think - but let me appreciate a show the way I see it.
Jo
I am not in any way connected with that show - I was simply part of an audience who appreciated the show's story and how it was told!
Can't you respect other peoples' viewpoints? You believe in what you think - but let me appreciate a show the way I see it.
Jo
#61
Posted: 8/8/06 at 7:48pm
I also think it was hypocritical of co-star Murray Bartlett to say that the play sends out an important message of "tolerance". Murray, by removing the kiss, you're sending out a message of intolerance, not tolerance.
#62
Posted: 8/8/06 at 9:04pm
All hail Jo!
#63
Posted: 8/8/06 at 9:45pm
Wasn't there same-sex kissing in the Australian version of RENT?
Yeah. I thought so. So how is it any different here?
Yeah. I thought so. So how is it any different here?
The course of true love never did run smooth.
#64
Posted: 8/9/06 at 12:35am
Noooooo, don't mention RENT! You may have called down the wrath of the anti-gay shredder!
'"Contrairiwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."'
~Lewis Carroll
#65
Posted: 8/9/06 at 2:48am
".....My understanding is that many Australians refuse to even talk about Peter Allen's homosexuality, despite it being a big part of his life. It's as if they're embarrassed about it. The omission of the kiss reflects this. ...."
Well - your understanding of our nation's opinions on Homosexuality are clearly misguided, misjudged and unfounded.
Yes - there are many homophobes here. That's a fact of life; there are many homophobic people everywhere you go. Unfortunately, there is no all-gay fantasy land.
Instead of clambering all over the fact that "the kiss" has been omitted from the show, why isn't anyone rejoicing that due to huge box office appeal Hugh is currently exposing hundreds of thousands of Australians to the story of a great, yet troubled, homosexual Australian? Just because they're not ‘making out’ doesn't mean the message is lost - less is more. And believe me, the story's moral journey is profound and reaches every seat of the back row in a 15,000 seat stadium!
And I say this as an Australian, a gay man and a musical theater performer.
I'd love to have seen them kiss! It would have been a great step towards neutralizing people's opinions on homosexual relationships - but this is not the be all and end all. It is not a backwards step. The fact remains that the story is still being told - and THAT is an achievement
Well - your understanding of our nation's opinions on Homosexuality are clearly misguided, misjudged and unfounded.
Yes - there are many homophobes here. That's a fact of life; there are many homophobic people everywhere you go. Unfortunately, there is no all-gay fantasy land.
Instead of clambering all over the fact that "the kiss" has been omitted from the show, why isn't anyone rejoicing that due to huge box office appeal Hugh is currently exposing hundreds of thousands of Australians to the story of a great, yet troubled, homosexual Australian? Just because they're not ‘making out’ doesn't mean the message is lost - less is more. And believe me, the story's moral journey is profound and reaches every seat of the back row in a 15,000 seat stadium!
And I say this as an Australian, a gay man and a musical theater performer.
I'd love to have seen them kiss! It would have been a great step towards neutralizing people's opinions on homosexual relationships - but this is not the be all and end all. It is not a backwards step. The fact remains that the story is still being told - and THAT is an achievement
"...But Kungurtseva reels off multiple fouettes and the tape is stopped so she can take a bow. The Jester, an abomination introduced to Swan Lake in Soviet times, extorts applause from the audience. The cuts don't help the storytelling, the production is bare bones and they go for the '50s-style happy ending.
The audience cheers like mad at the end. It's the Russian ballet, after all..."
#66
Stagedoor_76,
I'll have to say that watching Greg singing I HONESTLY LOVE YOU with such longing and sadness( and Peter trying to grapple with his grief and pain, quiet tears coursing down his cheek) was one of the most poignant scenes I have seen in the theatre! You could hear a pin drop in that large venue ( but the closeup was seen on the large screens), as we all felt the sorrow and the loss.
It was so beautifully done!
Jo
Posted: 8/9/06 at 10:36am
Stagedoor_76,
I'll have to say that watching Greg singing I HONESTLY LOVE YOU with such longing and sadness( and Peter trying to grapple with his grief and pain, quiet tears coursing down his cheek) was one of the most poignant scenes I have seen in the theatre! You could hear a pin drop in that large venue ( but the closeup was seen on the large screens), as we all felt the sorrow and the loss.
It was so beautifully done!
Jo
#67
Posted: 8/9/06 at 7:56pm
stage_door 76,
Who's asking for a "make-out" scene? A simple kiss isn't a "make-out" scene. Get real, for Pete's sake.
I think you're exaggerating so as to paint me as unrealistic and perverse. The simple fact is there was a beautiful kiss in the American production but not in the Australian production. This points to the closed-mindedness of Australia, I'm afraid. Australia is still very backward on gay issues, especially at a cultural level. The Australian production is essentially a de-gaying of Peter Allen so as to not offend homophobes. It's as simple and concerning as that.
My message to those who have til now considered Australia an open-minded place is to think again. Australia is good at marketing itself as such, but it's pretty much a marketing trick.
Who's asking for a "make-out" scene? A simple kiss isn't a "make-out" scene. Get real, for Pete's sake.
I think you're exaggerating so as to paint me as unrealistic and perverse. The simple fact is there was a beautiful kiss in the American production but not in the Australian production. This points to the closed-mindedness of Australia, I'm afraid. Australia is still very backward on gay issues, especially at a cultural level. The Australian production is essentially a de-gaying of Peter Allen so as to not offend homophobes. It's as simple and concerning as that.
My message to those who have til now considered Australia an open-minded place is to think again. Australia is good at marketing itself as such, but it's pretty much a marketing trick.
#68
Posted: 8/9/06 at 7:58pm
You really need to get off this idea of blaming ALL of Australia for this.
All of my Australian friends are gay (except one) and I have not heard any complaints. They do not feel oppressed. They are not closeted either in jobs or family life.
All of my Australian friends are gay (except one) and I have not heard any complaints. They do not feel oppressed. They are not closeted either in jobs or family life.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
Updated On: 8/9/06 at 07:58 PM
#69
Posted: 8/10/06 at 9:16am
Lord, this is the stupidest debate I've ever heard.
A person who has never even BEEN to Australia moralising about how homophobic we all are.
Art2, well done. You've stooped to new lows. Feel proud.
Doxy out...
A person who has never even BEEN to Australia moralising about how homophobic we all are.
Art2, well done. You've stooped to new lows. Feel proud.
Doxy out...
#70
Posted: 8/10/06 at 10:32pm
Can you imagine if a male actor refused to kiss his female co-star in a theatrical production, even though that kiss was in the original script? There'd be hell to pay.
#71
Posted: 8/10/06 at 11:40pm
"My message to those who have til now considered Australia an open-minded place is to think again. Australia is good at marketing itself as such, but it's pretty much a marketing trick."
You scare me and might just well be one of the dumbest people on the planet, slither back to hole you came from ..
You scare me and might just well be one of the dumbest people on the planet, slither back to hole you came from ..
Well I didn't want to get into it, but he's a Satanist.
Every full moon he sacrifices 4 puppies to the Dark Lord and smears their blood on his paino.
This should help you understand the score for Wicked a little bit more.
Tazber's: Reply to
Is Stephen Schwartz a Practicing Christian
#72
Posted: 8/11/06 at 2:56am
rosscoe(au) I wish I'd thought to say that.
#73
Posted: 8/11/06 at 4:42am
*snaps for rosscoe*
#74
Posted: 8/11/06 at 7:08am
Well why did the Australian production omit the kiss between Jackman's character and his boyfriend? This isn't rocket science - a simple answer would suffice. Murray Bartlett's patronizing answer was an affront to the gay community as far as I'm concerned.
If you can't answer the question, you haven't got a leg to stand on.
If you can't answer the question, you haven't got a leg to stand on.
#75
Posted: 8/11/06 at 7:20am
Or perhaps we simply aren't the people that MADE THE DECISION. This was a decision of the producers, when it all comes down to it. The homosexual ASPECTS of Peter Allen's character were as plain as day, they weren't hidden, so I find it hard to believe it was a homophobic decision.
The way you speak about Australians is highly insulting, and I'm sure you would be outraged if I spoke the same way about your country. To stereotype all of my countrymen as you have shows just how ignorant you are...
The way you speak about Australians is highly insulting, and I'm sure you would be outraged if I spoke the same way about your country. To stereotype all of my countrymen as you have shows just how ignorant you are...
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