Sennett. . . Hell, he just makes movies

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 1:51pm

I just got the Mack and Mabel cast recording and am in love!!


any thoughts?

why did this show flop?

Updated On: 5/14/06 at 01:51 PM

[riv]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 1:59pm

First of all, which "soundtrack" did you get? There are three recordings of the score out there.

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:02pm

sorrrrry... changed to cast recording

and I got the OBC with Preston and Peters. it's magnificant

[FranklinShepard-Inc.]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:11pm

Well, the book, you know...

and if you get a hand on it, get the London concert cast, it is magnificent as well.

Does the current London revival make a recording of it?

[shesamarshmallow]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:16pm

Well, a musical comedy in which the female protagonist dies isn't exactly a pick-me-upper.
I saw the SF concert version this month with a severely altered book, and I loved it, though.

[tophertilson]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:27pm

Three reasons - book, book and book.

MACK AND MABEL is proof positive that you can have a great score (check), the best cast in the world (check and check) but if you're book is lacking, you're sunk.

TT

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:27pm

i'm hoping they'll record the London Revival version...!!!

[beenthere]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:48pm

I did a production of the show back in the 80's and LOVED it. The book does have some flaws, but overall I think it is a great show, perhaps a little before its time.

[Enjolras77]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 4:10pm

I got this CD not too long ago as well and I also think it is marvelous...but as several people posted above a weak book can do in a wonderful score. Also, I second the poster who mentioned above that its hard to have a musical comedy when the lead female dies at the end. I still hope that improvements can be made to the book and maybe it can be revived on Broadway someday. I have heard that it is Jerry Herman's favorite score that he has written.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 4:27pm

I would say it's the book more than the female lead dying thing.

It sure didn't hurt Evita or Oliver!

[mrkringas]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 4:38pm

Its the book!

People expect a big Jerry Herman show and they dont get it. Instead they get a rather dark piece of theatre that the London revival nails perfectly. There is a decent account of the detailed reasons for its failure in Ethan Mordden's "One More Kiss" or Mandelbaum's "Not Since Carrie".

I am not too sure I would listen to a recording of the new London revival. Its brilliant live theatre but not quite all there in the vocals. Janie Dee confessed she is no belter and renders a very fragile and honest Mabel. I loved her performance and the rest of the cast but I would rather listen to the 1995 London Cast.

Thats wins hands down. Caroline O'Connor as Mabel and a beautifully sung Howard McGillin as Mack. Also fine support from veteran belter Kathy Evans as Lottie. One word though...deleted!

So check ebay or amazon.co.uk for listings. Still the OBC is also a must have classic. And while you are it the 1988 London cast is only £6!

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 5:05pm

The book is problematic but not unfixable. There are more problems with the show itself: You cannot effectively re-create the Max Sennett films on stage. (Ballets like Jerome Robbins' Beach Ballet in HIGH BUTTON SHOES can borrow elements, but not faithfully re-create that silent movie knock-about.) Sennett himself is a sadly forgotten figure from the silent movie days. And... as wonderful as the score is - its often too upbeat for the material.

You're probably going "What the.." on that last statement, so let me explain. "Movies were Movies" is a good opener and allows us to go back from Mack Sennett as an old man to his early years with an upbeat song and dance number. Then Mabel arrives and he (almost instantly) makes her a star: "Look What Happened to Mabel" - a big upbeat production number. Then everyone moves west to Hollywood dreaming of the "Big Time" with a big upbeat production number. Act One ends with "Hundreds of Girls" - another big upbeat production number. Act Two opens "When Mabel Comes in the Room" - another (Hello Dolly) upbeat production number....

You get the idea. Too much of the same thing and it runs counter to the material. Hollywood in the 20s was a wild and crazy place yet that isn't established until the penultimate number ("Tap Your Troubles Away.") But the worst crime was changing the original bittersweet ending ("I love you, Mabel Normand") into a slapstick finale done in the way the story would have ended had it been a Sennett one-reeler. (This is the version in the script sold by Sam French.)

The best moments in the score are among the finest Jerry Herman has ever written: "I Won't Send Roses", "Wherever He Ain't", "Time Heals Everything", "Tap Your Troubles Away" and "I Promise You a Happy ending." But they had the wrong director; the wrong producer and the wrong book-writer to make it all come together.

The same problem happens with DEAR WORLD. The cast album sounds wonderful, but when you see the show you realize that much of the score is wrong for the material.

[joshy]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 5:46pm

Oh god, I love the recording with Bernadette Peters. I doubt the current London cast will get recorded, this country is sucky about recording anything, but I found the production absolutely enchanting.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 6:08pm

Hurry up. Go to www.bbc.co.uk and do it TONIGHT. Choose radio then easy and soundtracks, then choose Stage and Screen and listen to the one hour show with an interview with Jerry Herman who will personally tell you why it flopped. But you have to listen today as the show (all abouth musical theater, the best show in the WORLD) will change tomorrow.

[mrkringas]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 6:10pm

This country is indeed sucky about recording things! Growing up my OLC collection was huge and now its sadly rather dwarfed by my OBCs. Oh well. I blame the late 90s run of flops! That and the last few big broadway imports didnt get OLC- Thoroughly Modern Millie, The Producers, Full Monty etc

[jimnysf]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 7:55pm

Thanks "allofmylife"-Re that BBC show...

I love how they blended Carol, Pearl, Mary, Louis and Barbra's versions of "Hello, Dolly!" into one for the opening.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/musicaltheatre/

Jerry Herman's main reasons for the show failing:
The set wasn't right. Book was overlong. Leading lady dies.

I just saw a staged concert version of this in San Francisco a week or so ago and I've seen the original in NYC and the revival at the Paper Mill in NJ. It's one of my favorite scores. Maybe some day they will bring it back to Broadway but I hope it will be with a full orchestra, and not a version where the actors play the instruments. It's too bad we haven't had a new musical from Jerry Herman since "La Cage". Now we get scores written by one time pop composers who don't know anything about how to compose a Broadway score (Elton John, Phil Collins for example).

Updated On: 5/14/06 at 07:55 PM

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 8:03pm

Wherever he aint is a personal favorite!

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 8:04pm

I saw the original Broadway production. I do not think the book was bad as this was a tragic story so what did people expect. The staging by Gower Champion was first rate as always. Robert Preston was great as Mack & Peters was equally good as Mabel

I am glad i saw it

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 8:06pm

*scuttles off to find Not Since Carrie*

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 10:17pm

"Jerry Herman's main reasons for the show failing:
The set wasn't right. Book was overlong. Leading lady dies."

Oh, please, Jerry. MACK AND MABEL's set or downbeat ending is the least of its problems. For a show dealing with slapstick and comedy, there are mighty few laughs in the script; the romance is paper-thin and barely delineated; situations like Mabel disrupting the film shoot are contrived and cliched; and by the time she succumbs to her addictions, there is nothing left for the character to do (and the actress to play) but look sad.
You'd need to throw the whole thing out and start from scratch and that seems unlikely at this point.


Allsion MacKenzie
Peyton Place, New Hampsire

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 10:17pm

"Jerry Herman's main reasons for the show failing:
The set wasn't right. Book was overlong. Leading lady dies."

Oh, please, Jerry. MACK AND MABEL's set or downbeat ending is the least of its problems. For a show dealing with slapstick and comedy, there are mighty few laughs in the script; the romance is paper-thin and barely delineated; situations like Mabel disrupting the film shoot are contrived and cliched; and by the time she succumbs to her addictions, there is nothing left for the character to do (and the actress to play) but look sad.
You'd need to throw the whole thing out and start from scratch and that seems unlikely at this point.


Allson MacKenzie
Peyton Place, New Hampsire

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 5/14/06 at 10:50pm

did u post u were from Wellfleet Mass once?

i love that place. go there everyyear.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/15/06 at 12:15am

JimnySf

That show, Stage and Screen is fantastic every single week of the year. They modulte between shows about stage and screen musicals. The host, Edward Seckerson is SO well informed and LOVE musicals. I NEVER miss this show. You should also check out Elaine Page's show on the BBC. She can be cloying but she has great recordings. There is also a show called "Showtime" which is devoted to musicals. All told, the BBC really covers the subject. And BTW a show calledOneClick Film is one of the best shows about movies around.

Enjoy!

[jimnysf]

Posted: 5/15/06 at 1:36am

Thanks again "allofmylife" for letting me know. I will check out the others you mentioned. I usually check out the BBC News every day but I wasn't aware of these radio offerings.

[mrkringas]

Posted: 5/15/06 at 2:26am

Thanks to our universal television licence fee the BBC can provide its wonderful diverse services across tv and radio and the internet!

Imagine if such a thing existed in the US... oh wait it costs less money per week than a starbucks on would actually provide impartial non-corporate news and programming. Cant have that can we?