Shoshana Bean's Vocals In Wicked.- Page 3

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 1:02pm

ljay, I see what you're saying, but I think you're wording it a little strangely. I wouldn't say she struggles to hit those notes, it's just her technique is more of a rock sound and a "harsher" tone. Whether it's harder for her to sing the higher notes or not, she makes a point to give a more emotionally powerful performance in her songs than Shoshana does.

Notice I never said Shoshana wasn't capable of it...she probably just needs time to work out exactly what she wants to do with the role. Right now I can say I very much enjoyed her in the role, but I wasn't crazy about her interpretation (which can go hand in hand with how she handles the vocals).

And for those of you who want to hear Shoshana, PM me. Updated On: 1/1/05 at 01:02 PM

[wicked4life51]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 1:43pm

listen im going to be nice to shotime(and dont listen to her/himn cause they are stupid but actors learn how to sing like eden or shohs or idina without voice lessons shes a mixer (eden), she doesent belt. Shoshana went to ccm and they provide two voiuce lessons a week for all of the 4 years you are there obviously, and idina if u heard her tony speech she thanked her voice coach and if you read her ny times article she visits her once a week so theres my point u dont learn how to sing just on your own perfectly it takes time and practice how do u think shosh and eden and idina got where they are today not from theeme parks or no training it all comes from the training ok theres my point. and she doesent have to talk about it on her website cause they offer it at ccm and ccm is a very hard schoiol to get into. JLT everyone on broadway has training dancers , singers , and actors it all takes training and practice and going to school for it is the one thinglike amazing places such as carnegie mellon,michigan,ccm,nyu all those world renouned places that people are known to be amazing from there, so dont talk when you dont know what you are talking avout shotime thank you

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 1:46pm

If that had any punctuation or capitalization, I might have read it.

[wicked4life51]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 1:52pm

its a message board it doesent have to be perfect thank you. if it was a school paper then thats a diffrent story

[Kelliexo90]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:11pm

Actually it is possible that Eden has just had a little bit of training at theme parks, some people are just born talented. But actually I would believe it if Eden hasn't had much training because she has done nothing but yell her brains out when I have heard her.

[Dare2DefyGravity]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:11pm

Again, no idea why there is a second thread started, so I'll just bump the normal thread.

I don't think the debate topic is about her "training". Shoshana has a great voice, trained or not trained, whatever it may be. Instead of going on and on about training, the topic basically should boil down to the thread topic... How does she sound as Elphaba.

Now first of all I will state that Shoshana is my least favorite out of the three Elphabas who have appeared on Broadway. She has some power, but nothing as strong as Eden or Idina. She's great for the role and takes it on herself, and that's all that matters. She's a breath of fresh air to the part compared to the fact that Eden matched Idina's track almost exactly as the stand-by, which I had no problem with. I believe Shoshana will be a fine replacement, but nothing as strong as Idina.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:14pm

I think part of the problem (well, not so much problem) is that Idina had literally made Elphaba her own. She changed some of the music to fit her - which also made it more difficult for others.

[Dare2DefyGravity]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:15pm

But when I saw Shoshana, on her second show ever she was already adapting the character to her. She added her own emotions and added a bit of a soul sound and took some notes differently. Not saying it was good, not saying it was bad. Having seen Idina and Eden, I am still proud of Shoshana's performance, which is my least favorite of the three. Updated On: 1/1/05 at 02:15 PM

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:19pm

i didn't say she was bad....i meant that for any1 to take over, the role will be changed. we'll just have to get used to it...

[Dare2DefyGravity]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:30pm

But again, think about this on a different scale. Wicked performs for one of the largest audiences of Broadway, and most people that go are tourists who want to see a good show. They don't know Idina Menzel or anyone else from the cast. Sure you get the occasional news follower now and then, but quite fankly most do not know a thing about the show except one small hint about the story. With that much of a large audience seeing Wicked, the only people who really nit-pick at a show and it's comparisons to performers before it are people like you (no offense or anything). There is no "getting used to it" for about 9.5/10's of Wicked's audience, so therefore there is no need to worry about Shoshana and how she sings in the first place. The only people who are effected are people who have seen Idina or Eden.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:32pm

i thought we were talking about comparing shoshana to idina and eden (although eden really doesn't compare)

[Dare2DefyGravity]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:37pm

I was more elaborating on the idea that you said about everyone having to adjust or "get used to" Shoshana as Elphaba. It was almost like you were assuming that an audience in general would have to adapt, but that made zero sense because most of Wicked's audience is seeing the show for the first time. I for one can see the show with a million different Elphabas and still enjoy it just as much.

As far as Eden comparing to Shoshana and Idina, I tend to disagree with most people's idea that Eden can't compare. When I saw her live, her "No Good Deed" was perfectly fine to me. And her "Defying Gravity" floored me and was a lot better than Idina's live.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 2:43pm

oh, my comment was to the people who compare everyone to idina...

[ShoTime]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 3:27pm

In regards to the lengthy retort by Wicked4life51 I would like to give you a quick thanks for being "nice" to me and then calling me stupid.

Just to let you know, I go to school for musical theater and looked into all of the schools you mention. Of the schools on that list and many that you didn't list, I can only think of several that teach "classical" singing to music theater majors. Yes, people go to school for musical theater and learn how to sing, but not a lot of them are learning to sing "classically." This is why opted to go to a school with a Bachelor's of Music where I would learn how to sing. Not how to belt, or how to mix, or how to scream. Not a certain technique, or tricks. But how to sing.

And about a voice coach. They are not a teacher. They are a coach, hence the name. If you have a voice teacher, they are probably teaching you technique. Traditionally, a voice coach works with you on characterization, pronuncation, acting, etc.

[QueenMuppet]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 3:54pm

Wow, shotime, I'm impressed that you could even be bothered to read or respond to wicked4life. I saw no punctuation with lots of spelling mistakes and moved on to the next post

I totally agree with the comments by ordinaryjukebox. Before I saw Shoshana everyone on this board told me that she'd 'blow me away', that I'd be 'shoshified'. The friend I was going with has been a huge fan of hers too, hence I was expecting a lot.
Don't get me wrong, she is a good, solid replacement and she will do absolutely fine but she didn't give me the chills or wowed me. My friend left very unimpressed too, by the way.

Someone else mentioned (was it D2DG?) that she couldn't hold the last AGAIN in No Good Deed till the end, so she stopped and re-started it. This really bothered me. I remember seeing the shows when she did that and I was like 'excuse me?'.
I'm not a professional singer (far from it) but she obviously doesn't quite have the strength the carry that note for a longer time. Her big notes in Defying Gravity are very soft, whereas Idina's are a lot harsher and I'm sorry Idina's version works a lot better for me.

Some people seem to have the idea here that if you 'defend' Idina you need to be a hysterical teenager who doesn't know what she looks like when she is not wearing green make-up.
I just want to add that I'm not a teenager (although I wish I was sometimes ) I'm not a fan of hers, I've never met her and don't own any of her CD's but I do appreciate that girl on a Broadway stage. She sings the sh*t out of songs and I love her for it.

QM

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 4:49pm

All vocal training builds on the principles of classical singing. Breathing, placing the note, tone etc - the first things a singer will learn is how this is done CLASSICALLY (note I'm not saying operatically - that's different again). Classical tuition (though the singer may not even be aware that they are being taught classically) teaches proper placing for notes, how to work through the passagio, how to control the voice (especially the vibrato). It is the fundamentals of singing, so is very frequently not referred to as "classical", that term being reserved for teaching specifically relating to the classical genre.

It teaches all of the basics. Certainly in the UK, in your first year at drama school the singing tuition is based around methods such as the bel canto of the Italian singers (also taught to many of the American crooners of the 1920s-1940s). Musical theatre tuition (belting et cetera) is then taught once you have grasped those basics.

A singer can then go one of two ways (or both if they are willing to really work at it) - they can completely forego what they have learnt with their legit sound and go for full-on "scream" style belt, as Idina does, or they can combine the 2 and mix where they don't feel the legit sound brings enough power or emotion to the note. Actually, most people we now consider belters AREN'T natural belters - they force their voices to work that way, which can be quite dangerous. About the only person I can think of at the mo who seems to be a TRUE belter is Linda Eder, and I think she mixes quite a lot.

I've never heard Shoshana's Elphalba, but when I listen to the OCR, I can't help but feel that Idina is a little too "shouty" for my liking. I'm constantly feeling uncomfortable - my one thought through the end of DEFYING GRAVITY is "Hello polyps!". I think it is rather simplistic (and dangerous) to say that you can't emote unless you're singing in chest. A good singer (and this casts no aspersions on Idina's talent - it may purely be the way she chose to play the role) doesn't need to belt to sound emotional. My favourite part of any cd at the minute is LISA CAREW on the Anthony Warlow JEKYLL & HYDE - that bit where Lisa sings "Simon, enough! There's nothing more! Don't be a bore - you've had your answer!" - there's not a single belt there, but it gives me chills everytime.

[KChenowethfan]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 5:11pm

Using vibrato gives off a classical vibe? Always? That is a pretty blanket statement. Judging from her clips on her website, she is more pop/rock. Are you going to tell me that every pop wannabe who pulls out the vibrato here and there sounds "classical?"

[kangaroo]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 5:14pm

I don't know who said that... but I defintely do not agree. I think that adding vibrato gives a prettier and much more experienced sound, but I dont' think it means classical. I am far from classical, but I have vibrato. I think that the view of the genre classical has changed a lot, and the definiton is morphed.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 6:16pm

i wasnt trying to annoy you ljay, just understand...

[kim1061]

Posted: 1/1/05 at 6:35pm

i've seen both and i think that shoshana plays the role more juvenile and idina more mature. Both vocals are different. I think idina has a powerful voice and is a good belter. Shoshana also has a powerful voice and is a good belter but it is just different. i can't describe it but shoshana's is more..i don't know the word..soul? They are equally good.