Sondheim - criticism by women?
Sondheim - criticism by women?
#0Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 12:17pm
Was listening to "Merrily We Roll Along" and the dialogue between Frank and Mary in the beginning about his "formula" picture has the same feel and meaning as George and Blair in Act 2 of "Sunday in the Park..." This is clearly about him b/c there's a male artist being picked apart and taken to task by a really strong female figure.
So that got me thinking about how many times the hero, main male character, is criticized by a strong female in Sondheim's shows. Seems like a really present theme in his work.
"A Funny Thing" - Domina and Senex
"Anyone Can Whistle" - Fay and Hapgood
"Company" - Joanne and Bobby, Susan and Harry
"Follies" - Phyllis and Ben
"Into the Woods" - Baker's Wife and the Baker
"Merrily..." - Mary and Frank
"Sunday..." - Blair and George, Mother and George
Unknown User
Joined: 12/31/69
#1re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 12:20pmI wouldn't say it's criticism, but his male leads do need the help of a woman.
#2re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 2:10pmbump
#3re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 2:24pmSondheim's relationship with his mother is probably one of the key reasons for this perceived "criticism."
#4re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 2:30pmit's been a while since i read a bio on him (Secrest's) but i just thought everything was normal with him and his parents, guess im wrong.
Isabella2
Broadway Star Joined: 10/6/05
#5re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 2:49pmi think he does that because he didn't have a great relationship with his mother.
MargoChanning
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/5/04
#6re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 2:54pmSondheim doesn't write the books to any of his shows, so if there are issues concerning the strong female characters in his shows (and really MOST shows have strong female characters -- not just Sondheim's) look at Lapine, Furth, Goldman, Gelbart and Laurents and not him.
Unknown User
Joined: 12/31/69
#7re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 2:56pmTrue. Do you think he contributed anything to them though?
Link Larkin Wanabe
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/1/04
#8re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 3:00pm
Margo,
I just read an article form an academic journal that quoted Sondheim saying just that. He dislikes the fact taht people always try to find themes that run through his works, because he feels that it diminshes the libbretists he works with.
Akiva
Jazzysuite82
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/6/05
#9re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 3:08pmYEah it's pretty much common knowledge that Sondheim had issues with his mother. His father wasn't around much. Apparantly his mother wasn't the nicest of people. He didn't even go to her funeral.
MargoChanning
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/5/04
#10re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 3:12pm
He generally collaborates with his book writers on what scenes are needed -- from a new work or an adaptation of an existing one -- to tell the story. They have series of meetings for months before Sondheim begins composing the score. Could it be that his antipathy towards his mother somehow subsconsciously affects how these books are writen by others? Perhaps, but it's ultimately the job of the book writer to construct the character, their conflicts and personalities. And in the case of several of these examples, Sondheim very clearly had nothing to do with the the nature of the female characters.
Whatever relationship Mary and Frank have in Merrily can be traced back to the Kaufman and Hart play it's based on as much as Furth's update of it. Sondheim had nothing to do with that character being so strong-willed -- she was written that way 70 years ago. Furth's one act play vignettes were already written and the character relationships established before the idea of Company the musical even came along. Domina and Senex were creations of Plautus thousands of years ago and adapted by Lary Gelbart in the early 60s.
Maybe there's some argument for the other examples, but I still believe most of the credit/blame goes to the bookwriters (and their own issues with women) and not to Sondheim and his mother.
#11re: Sondheim - criticism by women?
Posted: 3/17/06 at 3:22pm
you know, i totally forgot there were book writers for his shows until it was mentioned here. i just was going on the assumption that the genius did it all.
but that all makes sense now, it just seems that a lot of the women in these shows could be interchangeable.
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