South Pacific - First Preview Review- Page 3

[lildogs]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 3:14pm

Um, West Village, pretty much every R&H show is about sex; generally they focus on battling desires: animal lust vs. romantic love...

Laurey struggles between lusting after the rough Jud and the clean Curley

Julie pursues her sexual fantasy despite it costing her job and reputation

KING AND I is about changing sexual roles and miscegenation, themes also addressed in SOUTH PACIFIC

I don't think some naked rears belies the legacy of R&H...it seems like a natural progression (to me anyway)

[WestVillage]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 3:29pm

lildogs, i agree with you completely, but throwing in naked butts is totally gratuitous. The nudity is among the male ensemble, who have nothing to do with the love story of any of the leading characters. Sounds like they're just going into the shower or something like that. Completely unnecessary. It just sounds like somebody had the idea: "lets have some of the chorus boys show their butts." For what purpose? Besides, natural progression or not, I certainly don't want to see Oklahoma with a naked Jud.

And in all of the examples you mentioned, the point has always gotten across very clearly without an ounce of nudity.
Updated On: 3/3/08 at 03:29 PM

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 3:30pm

Very well put, lildogs.

[lildogs]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 3:39pm

Perhaps, but in this case, I'm quite sure Bartlett Sher knows more than I do, otherwise, I'd be directing that show--so I'll reserve judgment until I see it--butss and all

Neither you nor I know the PURPOSE as we haven't seen the show...you're basing this on what you've "heard."

And I don't know that it's any more gratuitous than an Emcee that flashed us, a naked Clara, nudity in WIT, cursing in SPRING AWAKENING, blood in SWEENEY...

But don't change your mind on my account--keep on truckin' and don't go see the show.

I wouldn't mind a naked Jud myself...if nudity is good enough for Shakespeare, it's good enough for Dick and Oscar.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 3:56pm

My opinion about the 'naked butts' is that it's a couple of minutes that could easily be cut in a show that is running long...

The 'scene' does nothing to move the story forward.

If they keep it in - it's fine. If they cut it - it's fine. It's truly that uneventful...

[WestVillage]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 4:05pm

lildogs, you posted about the love/lust between leading characters in other R&H productions. Its already been said here that it is 2 male ensemble members who show their butts in SP. Its not like a nude scene between Lt. Cable and Liat (which would make more sense). This sounds to me very similar to the scene in the revival of Damn Yankess, where one of the ballplayers dropped his towel to reveal his butt on the way to the showers. That was unnecessary too.

"And I don't know that it's any more gratuitous than an Emcee that flashed us, a naked Clara, nudity in WIT, cursing in SPRING AWAKENING, blood in SWEENEY"

I don't think any of those examples are gratuitous at all. But I do think a chorus boy dropping a towel is.

I'm seeing this next week, and very much looking forward to it. Also looking forward to seeing the "reason" for naked butts, if there is one. And I hope its a more substantial reason than just to obtain giggles and gasps from the audience.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 4:12pm

It's to set the 'shower' scene just before 'Wash that Man'... it's simply to set the mood that this is the area where people shower.

Totally uneventful and unnecessary - (although there is nothing "wrong" with it). Just a time filler. In a show that needs to cut some time.

The person who I saw it with and I both cited it as a place where some time could be saved.

Updated On: 3/3/08 at 04:12 PM

[WestVillage]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 4:15pm

Thanks for the description, NYadgal. Sounds exactly like I thought it would be ... unnecessary.

[lildogs]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 4:32pm

So then you get to be right! Now you can go see the show and actually see what you're talking about.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 4:36pm

lildogs - you're right, too, with what you write. The 'nudity' is totally fine - and works within the scene.

It's just a scene that isn't "needed" if the show is running long. But, it's also just for a few brief minutes....

But, I'm not a director, and I defer to the wise and wonderful Bartlett Sher.

[lildogs]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 4:41pm

Thanks, but it's SO not about me being right--I just think it's silly to call something unnecessary and gratuitous if one hasn't seen the context.

But R&H shows have a reputation for being wholesome and family-friendly when they're really not...it's just that they usually get very old-fashioned productions that could have easily been mounted the same year they were written and that somewhat defeats the purpose of reviving them in the first place--otherwise, we'd be called them RESTAGINGS.

[WestVillage]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 5:27pm

lildogs, someone posted "Wash That Man Outta My Hair" is super cute. And fun. Real water and sudsy soap, Kelli gets all 1950s pin-up girl looking in a wet two-piece bathing suit. And (spoiler) we get to see some naked man ass!"

So it is pretty obvious from that description that the context in which the bare butts are seen is during the shower scene, and it just sounds like a cheap thrill rather than something necessary. Its not Take Me Out.

[Tom148502]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 5:37pm

What's not wholesome about State Fair, Allegro, Me and Juliet, Pipe Dream, Flower Drum Song, The Sound of Music and Cinderella? I'm interested in reading what you have to say about the rest of the Rodgers and Hammerstein canon.

[lildogs]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 5:38pm

Okay...so I guess you should close your eyes, time the offending section, pro-rate the amount of time from the ticket cost and ask for a refund from Mr. Sher since you have a problem with his directing choices.


"Pretty obvious" from a second-hand description from a total stranger?...a'ight.

[Sleeper2]

Posted: 3/3/08 at 8:58pm

"So it is pretty obvious from that description that the context in which the bare butts are seen is during the shower scene, and it just sounds like a cheap thrill rather than something necessary. Its not Take Me Out. "

It is anything but a cheap thrill. The tickets are more than $100 a pop. But it is a definite thrill! Robert Lenzi...sexalicious...

Since the R&H organization and all their descendants saw and approved the show, I wouldn't worry about passing judgement from the BWW message board as to whether it's wholesome enough. Look, these guys are soldiers in a shower, and there is a heavy overtone of sexual frustration in the show. It fits right in with Bart Sher's overall tone and feel of the show and is appropriate.

[jrb]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 4:35pm

Just so everyone's clear - the "butts" happen during a transition. It's not a scene in and of itself. It's a transition to mask the moving of set pieces - and it's light hearted fun. The audience laughs at it. Nothing more than that. It's happens right before "Wash that man" as a way to move from one scene to another.

[Dolly_Levi]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 4:46pm

I have a feeling way too much is being made of this "butt moment" and when we all see the show we will literally be like, "what was the big deal?"

But, I could be wrong.

[jrb]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 4:47pm

That's my point. If you blink you miss it.
The show is wonderful - this moment is very brief.

[Tom148502]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 4:52pm

jrb said:
"Just so everyone's clear - the "butts" happen during a transition. It's not a scene in and of itself. It's a transition to mask the moving of set pieces - and it's light hearted fun. The audience laughs at it. Nothing more than that. It's happens right before "Wash that man" as a way to move from one scene to another."

There are 21 lines of dialogue in the Beach scene, where the shower is, before Nellie sings "Wash That Man." Has all that dialogue between Nellie and the other nurses been cut? Why are they moving set piece "right before" the song?

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 5:06pm

Why are people surprised that O'Hara showers on stage?
Isn't Mary Martin showering on stage for that same scene one of the most classic scenes in theater history?

[lildogs]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 5:32pm

State Fair: Margy is very dissatisfied with her romantic prospects until she discovers an exciting suitor (Pat, who is also jaded) at the State fair, a place of wonder, magic (for lack of a better term) and mystery--the same place her brother Wayne meets a glamorous but liberated woman who lights his fire as well...meanwhile we have pickles (phallic) and pies (vagina reference) are being "judged." The fair is the place of sexual awakening...

Allegro: A young, idealistic boy falls in love with the girl next door and has his first kiss...she later becomes a manipulative figure, trying to "get" him through her father's business. She later ends up having an affair with one of his co-workers, which Joe in turn, runs off with his secretary. It reminds me ALOT of Sinclair Lewis' DODSWORTH...I see it as a nightmare: a young boy meant to follow in the footsteps of his father is abandoned by all the women in his life--grandma, mother, an unfaithful wife...not as sexual perhaps, but just as dark.

Me and Juliet: Another set-up similar to Oklahoma!--two men battle over Jeanie--Bob even tries to kill her...to punish her for sexually humiliating him with another man. Bob is a version of Jud, Larry a version of Curley (not the Three Stooges either)..and there's a VERY subtle gay subtext with Mac giving the flowers to Dario

Pipe Dream: It's about alcoholics running scams, Fauna tries to pimp out Suzy, the shy new girl...which brings to mind Alma and her club girls in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY...a sanitized bordello...then Doe gets hit by a baseball bat so that Suzy will take care of him. He must incapacitate himself in order to draw out a sexually naive girl.

Flower Drum Song: Wang's head is filled with thoughts of women, his father is looking for a bride but seeks a more modern woman that the stereotypical Asian woman. Wang meets a VERY modern Asian girl on a blind date. All the while the Westernization of the Asian culture is afoot. Wang must choose between the traditional woman and the modern girl, putting him in the "Laurey" role. There is also a great deal of flower imagery (duh) which we also see in SOUND OF MUSIC and ME & JULIET...there's a lot of star-crossed lovers in this one. But to me, the main thread is the growing sexual empowerment of women after WWII.

The Sound of Music: The most wholesome of all has a nun leaving the convent and getting married (rather quickly I might add), a love affair with a Nazi, a minor love triangle with Maria, the Capt. and Elsa, and of course, the approaching Nazi army--less sexual and more political, it examines the idea of complacency with the Nazis and the perilous journey our heroes (stand-ins for actual Jews) must take in order to both escape the SS and also the "mountain" they'll always have to conquer in order to find happiness in this world.

Cinderella: A young prince is not at all thrilled at the prospect of seeing all the women who want him (much like Margy's/Laurey's ennui) but he puts on a brave front while the women get ready for the ball and the presumed sex that it entails. Cinderella, through the help of magic (like Laurey's elixir or the State Fair itself), she finds the moral courage and proper attire to attend the ball. After they meet and fall in love, he ends up finding her in the garden (flowers again) and they get married. It has elements of sexual jealousy with the stepsisters and it also subtly illustrates the sexual attraction the upper class often has for the lower class.

jesus, I'm tired....

[jrb]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 5:57pm

Sorry, it's the transition before the scene that includes the song.
It's really so quick you won't be offended in the least.
Go and see it for yourself, of course.

[Sleeper2]

Posted: 3/4/08 at 7:22pm

If I were asked to cut something from the show, I would reduce the scene when they're waiting for word from DeBecque and Cable on the radio. The guy who plays Brackett just screams a bunch of lines and the scene seems to drag on until you hear the radio crackle with news. It seemed long to me, and I thought Brackett was the weak link of the otherwise great cast. (It was super not to see the same tired gypsies in the ensemble -- I know, I'm one of them!)

But, again, the show is top-notch.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 3/6/08 at 4:27am

I'm on the other coast and will not get to see the show.

Could someone take a minute and PM me with a spoiler of what happens during the overture?

Thanx

Chris