Sweeney - The First Coming- Page 2

[mrs felciano]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:44pm

Jason -- I apologize if I came off as one of the rude attacking people. I totally respect your opinion. I get sick of it too with shows. I just wanted to get it out there that you don't need to have been around for the original you know?

My user name is Mrs Felciano.. but trust me.. I'm not a teeny boppery type girl that only likes Sweeney for reasons of that. I've been passionate about theatre for more than half my life. Granted.. I'm only 17.. but still.

I'm going to stop talking, because I don't think I'm making any sense.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:45pm

Caseywouldwaltz, that was poor phrasing on my part, and not what I meant. The statement was not about the fans, but about the differences in the shows. It's not the kind of show, IMO, that you just hop on the bandwagon for because it's cool to like it, because it's not poppy and glamorous and all of the things that make people who are otherwise not into theater really latch onto Wicked. I don't happen to think that Wicked is at all on the same level of artistic achievement than Sondheim's works.

Jason, you are blowing things very much out of proportion by saying it's Wicked Part Two. Seriously.

Anyone who gives a damn who Manoel is dating or what Lauren had for lunch probably doesn't really get the show.

I do recall that you were one of the ones who gave a damn about if Manoel and Lauren were dating.

You posted, not too long ago:
Aren't Mano and Lauren dating? I thought I heard that somewhere. A friend of mine saw them walking into the theatre together looking kind of cozy....

So what does that make you? I call bull****, 'cause way to majorly invalidate your statement.

Back before this revival, there was a really interesting debate about the morality in the show and the nature of good v. evil. Has that happened since?

See? High horse. You don't see it, so I know, it doesn't happen.

You, my friend, are full of it.

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:47pm

Um Emcee...when he said that..he was JOKING. He was trying to get a reaction from all the "OMG MANO IS HOT I am going to the stagedoor EVERY NIGHT to see him people" which he did

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:48pm

What the hell, Caitie? That has nothing to do with what I said, I was responding to you.

A work of art is an invitation to love.

[Theatreboy49]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:48pm

I have loved this show ever since i first heard the obc recording 3 years ago.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:48pm

"It's wrong to condemn the backlash against some of the younger Sweeney fans, but it's perfectly okay to condemn the "teeney boppper" Wicked fans?"

I gotta say I agree here. I've said it before, but you can't...universally say a show is more intelligent, or that it makes you think more, etc. Everyone has a different experience with a show. Like Sweeney may be a gateway to other Sondheim shows, Wicked may be a gateway for theatre in general.

Teenyboppers will be teenyboppers. When I was that age, my friends were crazy over the Backstreet Boys and N Sync. Blah. I would much rather they care more about theatre.

And finally I hate the whole concept of "getting" a show. A show is a different experience for everyone. People can relate to different aspects, find different themes, etc. Who really has the right to say one person doesn't get a show?

[mrs felciano]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:50pm

I don't understand..if a person is a fan of a show.. but takes the time to want to know more about the actor and know whats going on in their life it means they don't appreciate the show?

I adore the actors not only because of what they do onstage but that they're such nice people outside the show. Mano takes the time to talk to his fans via message on his myspace. I just.. I don't get this whole thing.

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:50pm

And I was responding to the fact that you said this

"I do recall that you were one of the ones who gave a damn about if Manoel and Lauren were dating.

You posted, not too long ago:
Aren't Mano and Lauren dating? I thought I heard that somewhere. A friend of mine saw them walking into the theatre together looking kind of cozy.... "

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:51pm

wrq, I'm not talking about the shows in their ability to be "gateway drugs." I'm talking about comparing them as pieces of art.

I think you can absolutely say one show is better or more intelligent than another.

It's very interesting how suddenly this comes up and people are defending Wicked, when it's so "in" to bash it.

Caitie, you're just defending him for the sake of running to someone's defense.

Updated On: 8/1/06 at 11:51 PM

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:53pm

I don't intend to get into a flame war. But as penguin pointed out, there have been a lot of very intelligent, interesting discussions about the Sweeney Todd revival on BWW. Not about the actors, but about the production itself, and its themes. Do a search. You'll find great stuff.

Sweeney Todd opened when I was 1 year old. I have, however, been a "fan" (whatever that word means in this context) since I first heard the OBC, and saw the Landsbury/Hearn DVD. I've already stated my reasons for loving this revival, so I won't do that again. But please don't make assumptions about the people who love this show, or admire the actors in it.

[popular_elphie]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:53pm

I'd like you to tell me how many Sweeney fans that are like OMGMANOILUVU. All the Sweeney fans I have ever met/read things from are incredibly intelligent, and though they may like the actors, can go past that and love the show for what it is.

This is not the Wicked fandom.

[jasonf]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:53pm

emcee -- Caitie did get that right...it was a jab - not a good one, but a jab. I'm in Atlanta now - have been for the last week and a half - since before I posted that. Believe me, I have no idea what Lauren and Manoel are doing. And look at the reaction that post got...

My point is, people are free to like what they want. However, am I therefore not allowed to be affected negatively by their "OMG MANOEL" rantings all the time? Isn't THAT a double standard?

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:53pm

No I am defending him because he is my friend and i think he is right.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:55pm

And in making a lame joke, you started a rumor. Now someone will run with that, because a hell of a lot of people thought you were serious and really did see them. We're not responsible for keeping tabs on where you are.

My point is, people are free to like what they want. However, am I therefore not allowed to be affected negatively by their "OMG MANOEL" rantings all the time? Isn't THAT a double standard?

And my point is that your original post came off as only the latter and little to none of the former. People are free to like what they want was like a defensive afterthought.

[jasonf]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:56pm

popular -- do a search. You'll be amazed at what you find. And to those saying "there have been discussions..." OK, yes, maybe there have been -- but the fandom threads and posts WAY outweigh those!

Smartpenguin - no, I didn't see the original production, but I saw the video when I was 12 and have seen four other productions prior to seeing the revival. I LOVED the revival, btw - I am NOT in any way attacking it.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:56pm

Sure you are allowed to be upset by them and state it. But the nature of the beast is that you will have responses, both those that agree and those that disagree. That is what you contract for in an open forum.

[Patronus]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:58pm

Hmmm, I wonder if Idina would be interested in playing Lovett?!? OMG!

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:59pm

For the record, many of these discussions that you insist are invisible happen to have occurred IN the "love" threads.

[jasonf]

Posted: 8/1/06 at 11:59pm

EXACTLY -- so, my initial post was to find out how many people liked the show prior to the revival, and to say that the fandom type people (which, the very fact that we're having this conversation supports the existence of in great quantities on this board) ARE capable of lessening the enjoyment of a show for me. The same thing happened with Wicked - I really enjoyed it when I first saw it. So much, in fact, that I took my students two months later. Now, I can't even LISTEN to it because of the overkill on this board. I'm worried the same thing will happen with one of my favorite shows. I did NOT attack in the first post -- the defensiveness in the responses brought the claws out.

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 8/2/06 at 12:01am

Could you point me to these so called "fandom" annoying threads, in which all people say are "OMG MANO'S HOTTTT?" Cause I really don't think that's the norm.

I KNOW they're out there. But in my experience at least, it really hasn't been the most prominent form of Sweeney Todd discussions around these parts.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 8/2/06 at 12:01am

Sure you are allowed to be upset by them and state it. But the nature of the beast is that you will have responses, both those that agree and those that disagree. That is what you contract for in an open forum.

If you want to filter your responses, get a blog.

A very simple suggestion would be that if it bugs you, tune it out. If you love say, Wicked, that much, then just listen to it. What, are you *embarassed* to like it because of all the fangurls? That's such a lame excuse.

[Johnnytoc]

Posted: 8/2/06 at 12:01am

Jason, if by OMG MANOEL you mean things such as the Mano Love Thread- have you read it? It actually contains *gasp* intelligent discussion on the production and Mano's concerts and such.

This production Has generated a Lot of intelligent discussion and it is, in no way, a second Wicked.

Edit: Em and others made the point as I was typing; I agree with them. Updated On: 8/2/06 at 12:01 AM

[MOXIEINTHECITY]

Posted: 8/2/06 at 12:02am

"And when they take their kids to see the next revival - because they learned to appreciate the show due to this revival - will that be negated by the fact that on this day, they were interested in Mano because he's cute? "


I don't think there's anything wrong with liking a show because you find a certain actor/actress cute. It's this ridiculous attitude that some people get when they get teased for crushing on an actor/actress and that's why they like the show. Come on...that's part of it. I highly doubt that, if Doyle wasn't directing both Sweeney and Company and that Raul Esperaza wasn't in Company and he and Mano haven't been compared so often, that Sweeney would have even had the younger fan base that it has. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. I don't watch Grey's Anatomy because it's a well written show. I watch it because I think Dempsey is hot. Period. I don't go on and expound on the magnificent direction and the character development and all the incredible nuances of Patrick Dempsey. I like his hair and his eyes and I giggle when I see him.

I think Manoel Felciano is cute. I freely and openly announce here that I have a teeney bopper crush on him and I've even told him so. I lust after Michael Cerveris. I'm seeing the show a second time because, while I love the show, I also lust after Michael Cerveris and think Mano is cute. You can't deny that part of the excitement on here about Sweeney is due to the fact that Manooel is a cute boy and Michael is sexy as well as it's a great production. But, man, just admit it. Totally expecting to be flamed and burned.

As for the I 3< whomever...what the hell does that mean? I see that icon around all the time and I have no idea what it stands for.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 8/2/06 at 12:02am

That is the thing, I don't see the need for me to trot out my "credentials" in the discussion.
There are obnoxious annoying people around everything, I just think it is a bit strange that somehow they can affect your enjoyment of a show in a negative way.
I dislike how some Wicked fans act, in addition I find the show trite. If I found the show bad BECAUSE of the fans then that makes ME the shallow one.

[Patronus]

Posted: 8/2/06 at 12:02am

The same thing happened with Wicked - I really enjoyed it when I first saw it. So much, in fact, that I took my students two months later. Now, I can't even LISTEN to it because of the overkill on this board. I'm worried the same thing will happen with one of my favorite shows.

With all due respect Jason - that sounds like your issue, not everyone Else's.

I fail to see how a group of extremely passionate/aggressive fans could really impact your particular feelings on liking the music of a show or not. I completely get the overkill and how obnoxious it is to see the same threads posted over and over, however to let that actually have an adverse reaction on something that you otherwise enjoyed seems very odd to me.

Edited to correct spelling.

Updated On: 8/2/06 at 12:02 AM