#26
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:13am
Rashad shouldn't just coast into a nomination based on reputation. She gave a fine performance in Gem of the Ocean and should get in on her own merits.
The Best Actress Tony — Page 2
#27
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:15am
I think she should, but I think she is not likely to get a nom based on just the show, only if they see her name and think "I did not see that, but I like her"
it's more a dig at the Tony nominators than anything to do with Rashad.
it's more a dig at the Tony nominators than anything to do with Rashad.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#28
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:19am
Okay, that makes sense. Though looking at the amount of recognition Gem has gotten so far, I'm inclined to think even her name won't be enough this time.
#29
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:21am
I don't think ANYONE should coast on reputation, but I live in the city and I know several people who saw it and said that she gave an amazing performance. People whose opinions generally align with my own.
That's actually part of my problem with what a lot of people are saying... just because someone was amazing in one show doesn't mean that they're going to be amazing in the next one. The quality of the show has a lot to do with the quality of the performance. There's not much you can do when the show is a piece of crap.
That's actually part of my problem with what a lot of people are saying... just because someone was amazing in one show doesn't mean that they're going to be amazing in the next one. The quality of the show has a lot to do with the quality of the performance. There's not much you can do when the show is a piece of crap.
#30
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:22am
i have nothing against Victoria Clark. I have yet to see her performance. But from what I hear, the tony is hers. While I dont doubt shes great, I think part of the reason her reviews were so good, was because of the EXTREME hype she was givin. People on this board were giving her the tony before the show even came to NY.
Funnt what a little bit of Hype can do....
Funnt what a little bit of Hype can do....
#32
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:25am
As opposed to the Sutton groupies who would give her a Tony if she got on stage and belched for two hours? Don't tell me that slavish devotion hasn't played a part in the opinions of some people here.
#33
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:28am
I did not even know who Victoria Clark was (I had heard her in Titanic but didn't register it) when I saw TLITP and her performance blew me away. I have seen all the performers I nominated in these roles, and think Clark should still win, she has been helped by the hype but I think that is true with Applegate and Foster as well.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#34
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:32am
i agree with you plum. It does go both ways. However this year, I have noticed Clark has gotton so much hype, it makes me want her to loose. Now I think alot of people/critics to, went in to the show KNOWING Clark was going to be good. And didnt question it throughout the show. I bet you 10 bucks that if she had gotton extremely negative reviews out of town, people wouldnt be talking about her so much. Just my opinion, again not knocking her. She may very well deserve a tony, Just an observation.
#35
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:35am
If her "hype" (which I don't even thnk was that bad) makes you want her to lose, you're letting it affect you just as much as any of the critics you castigate.
#36
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:37am
When people are handing her the tony for a part she hadnt played in NY...i call that lots of Hype.
#37
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:50am
Once again, by criticizing the hype you're letting it affect you. How does that make you any different than someone who thinks she's great because of the hype?
#38
Posted: 5/4/05 at 2:16am
I saw her in Seattle two years ago in one of the early productions of LITP and she was Tony worthy THEN. It's not hype when she's really that good.
#39
Posted: 5/4/05 at 2:50am
Eden Espinoza does not have a chance in hell at being nominated for a Tony - she is terrible.
The only chance at a Tony nod BROOKLYN has is at Costumes, if the voters feel like including them.
Now as far as best actress, I would consider Erin Dilly to be completely supporting, but the Tony votes might consider her leading. Either way, I don't think she will garner a nomination.
In fact, the more and more I look at it, we might see only 4 nominations this year - they don't HAVE to nominate 5.
I absolutely consider Applegate, Clark, Foster, and Scott to be locks - they're too strong to be ignored.
The 5th potential slot is pointless - they will just be an ad-in and really not even be a bit contendor, atleast in my opinion.
It seems to be shaping up that Clark will win the Tony this year. Everyone on this board knows that I personally am not as moved my her performance as most others, but there's no denying the fact that this woman is talented and is long overdue. Bringing politics into the mix, I think Christina Applegate is the other major contendor and has an excellent chance of winning.
I know I've been supporting her on the boards, but I'm not just saying this because I like her - I'm being honest. She is completely winning in the role and I think she will get good reviews, but as we know - reviews have no bearing on who will actually win the award. Those saying that Applegate will only get nomninated because of her name obviously haven't seen her in the show. I am not a fan of any of Applegate's prior work - in fact, I've never even seen "Married...with Children" or any of her movies. I went in expecting to laugh at her, and I came out cheering her.
I attended the final preview tonight and she is better than she was two weeks ago. She is dancing more and is more comfortable in the role. Her voice is even better. If Melanie Griffith can get a rave from Ben Brantley, there's no reason why Christina Applegate shouldn't get absolute raves, although I doubt they will be across the board.
When I think of Applegate in CHARITY, I think of Bernadette Peters' main slogan last year from Brantley - "Start popping the champagne!!!"
The only chance at a Tony nod BROOKLYN has is at Costumes, if the voters feel like including them.
Now as far as best actress, I would consider Erin Dilly to be completely supporting, but the Tony votes might consider her leading. Either way, I don't think she will garner a nomination.
In fact, the more and more I look at it, we might see only 4 nominations this year - they don't HAVE to nominate 5.
I absolutely consider Applegate, Clark, Foster, and Scott to be locks - they're too strong to be ignored.
The 5th potential slot is pointless - they will just be an ad-in and really not even be a bit contendor, atleast in my opinion.
It seems to be shaping up that Clark will win the Tony this year. Everyone on this board knows that I personally am not as moved my her performance as most others, but there's no denying the fact that this woman is talented and is long overdue. Bringing politics into the mix, I think Christina Applegate is the other major contendor and has an excellent chance of winning.
I know I've been supporting her on the boards, but I'm not just saying this because I like her - I'm being honest. She is completely winning in the role and I think she will get good reviews, but as we know - reviews have no bearing on who will actually win the award. Those saying that Applegate will only get nomninated because of her name obviously haven't seen her in the show. I am not a fan of any of Applegate's prior work - in fact, I've never even seen "Married...with Children" or any of her movies. I went in expecting to laugh at her, and I came out cheering her.
I attended the final preview tonight and she is better than she was two weeks ago. She is dancing more and is more comfortable in the role. Her voice is even better. If Melanie Griffith can get a rave from Ben Brantley, there's no reason why Christina Applegate shouldn't get absolute raves, although I doubt they will be across the board.
When I think of Applegate in CHARITY, I think of Bernadette Peters' main slogan last year from Brantley - "Start popping the champagne!!!"
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#40
Posted: 5/4/05 at 2:54am
Actually, I find hype tends to work the opposite way. People hear enough raves about a certain performer or a certain show and they think it's gonna be soo good but even though it may still be good, it did not meet expectations and the hype works negatively and the theatregoer is disappointed. That happened to me with Hairspray.
And I certainly hope/know that at least most people on this board can think for themselves in judging an actor's performance, as well as critics. I've certainly read some odd reviews from critics that go against raves from everyone else. Personally, I really like Sherie, thought she was great in Aida though I never saw her live, and love her in DRS. But I also saw Sutton in Little Women and Victoria Clark in LITP and Clark's performance in my opinion was the best and she deserves the tony.
And I certainly hope/know that at least most people on this board can think for themselves in judging an actor's performance, as well as critics. I've certainly read some odd reviews from critics that go against raves from everyone else. Personally, I really like Sherie, thought she was great in Aida though I never saw her live, and love her in DRS. But I also saw Sutton in Little Women and Victoria Clark in LITP and Clark's performance in my opinion was the best and she deserves the tony.
"If there was a Mount Rushmore for Broadway scores, "West Side Story" would be front and center. It snaps, it crackles it pops! It surges with a roar, its energy and sheer life undiminished by the years" - NYPost reviewer Elisabeth Vincentelli
#41
Posted: 5/4/05 at 2:58am
Clark's role in PIAZZA and Applegate's role in CHARITY aren't even in the same league - I think Clarke absolutely had a tougher job and should be awarded for it, but I wouldn't so quickly dismiss the notion of Applegate winning Tony for her absolute great performance in CHARITY.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#42
Posted: 5/4/05 at 8:59am
I would love to see Sutton Foster win because I thought she was remarkable.
You know, I saw Brklyn, and I don't see why people love the show but I also can't see why the show illicits such ire either.
As far as Eden was concerned, I liked her but I wasn't all that moved by her performance. It's not a show or performance I would catch twice so I guess that's a little damning considering the number of shows I've seen more than once.
You know, I saw Brklyn, and I don't see why people love the show but I also can't see why the show illicits such ire either.
As far as Eden was concerned, I liked her but I wasn't all that moved by her performance. It's not a show or performance I would catch twice so I guess that's a little damning considering the number of shows I've seen more than once.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
#43
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:09pm
LizzyBaby - the person who started this thread was talking about the musical category, that is why the play category had not been mentioned. You ranted for no reason. We all know that Broadway is more than just musicals, but obviously the majority of this board prefers musicals or sees more musicals, but that's personal preference. If you want more play threads, then start them instead of berating others for not discussing them when it wasn't the subject of the thread.
That said, musically Brooklyn is probably the weakest Broadway score I can think of at the moment, though there might be worse. There is little variety in the songs (nearly every song is a power ballad), the style is completely nondescript and does not highlight the story or setting, and the lyrics are trite at best. Eden did not receive stellar notices, the show was almost universally panned and it opened early in the season. I'd be surprised if it got one nomination, which could be for costumes (they generated the most buzz), but I doubt it.
That said, musically Brooklyn is probably the weakest Broadway score I can think of at the moment, though there might be worse. There is little variety in the songs (nearly every song is a power ballad), the style is completely nondescript and does not highlight the story or setting, and the lyrics are trite at best. Eden did not receive stellar notices, the show was almost universally panned and it opened early in the season. I'd be surprised if it got one nomination, which could be for costumes (they generated the most buzz), but I doubt it.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#44
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:21pm
Agreed. Victoria Clark should be given the Tony. Her work is fully engaging from beginning to end..and although I like sutton there is something strikingly unique and more grounded about Ms. Clarks performance,,,it is inspriing, touching, and sometimes painful to watch..she is fully committed all the way through and uses every bit of her talent physically and vocally to convey it.
GO CLARK
GO CLARK
#45
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:24pm
Munk, this is the best defense of your "Christine for Best Actress" argument I've heard you give.
Still, going with Victoria on this because she does have the harder acting role and can't simply get by on the shock factor of being better than expected.
I mean, the backlash against Victoria because she IS as good as expected is shocking.
I want to go see a show when the hype is amazing because I expect to have a good performance set in front of me.
Contrast that with the two hour screech-fest of Brooklyn and, well, sometimes hype either way is good to know.
Applegate has been getting a LOT of hype for her guts and dedication. Rightly so. But, in the end, the hype alone won't win anyone the Tony. Recall last year? Tonya had all the hype for her brilliant performance and Brantley, the king reviewer, barely mentioned Menzel in his gay-love ode to Chenoweth, but we all know who won that contest.
Still, going with Victoria on this because she does have the harder acting role and can't simply get by on the shock factor of being better than expected.
I mean, the backlash against Victoria because she IS as good as expected is shocking.
I want to go see a show when the hype is amazing because I expect to have a good performance set in front of me.
Contrast that with the two hour screech-fest of Brooklyn and, well, sometimes hype either way is good to know.
Applegate has been getting a LOT of hype for her guts and dedication. Rightly so. But, in the end, the hype alone won't win anyone the Tony. Recall last year? Tonya had all the hype for her brilliant performance and Brantley, the king reviewer, barely mentioned Menzel in his gay-love ode to Chenoweth, but we all know who won that contest.
#46
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:38pm
Your logic is correct, but your examples are way off.
The "hype" you're referring to of Tonya Pinkins' amazing performance is the same kind of "hype" that Victoria Clark is getting now. She's getting the early SHOULD WIN THE TONY buzz and AMAZING PERFORMANCE buzz. The hype Applegate is getting now has nothing to do with Tonya's performance last year - the hype Applegate is getting this year is more along the lines of Idina's hype last year.
Don't forget that every major "critic" or Tony-freak who wrote for newspapers/magazines prediced that either Donna Murphy or Tonya Pinkins would and should win....then look what happened - so while everyone is applauding Clark and expecting to give it to her, I wouldn't be surprised if Applegate snuck in.
The "hype" you're referring to of Tonya Pinkins' amazing performance is the same kind of "hype" that Victoria Clark is getting now. She's getting the early SHOULD WIN THE TONY buzz and AMAZING PERFORMANCE buzz. The hype Applegate is getting now has nothing to do with Tonya's performance last year - the hype Applegate is getting this year is more along the lines of Idina's hype last year.
Don't forget that every major "critic" or Tony-freak who wrote for newspapers/magazines prediced that either Donna Murphy or Tonya Pinkins would and should win....then look what happened - so while everyone is applauding Clark and expecting to give it to her, I wouldn't be surprised if Applegate snuck in.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#47
Posted: 5/4/05 at 1:43pm
Wait. Confused. My examples? I was saying hype often makes me want to see a show (like the hype surrounding Tonya made me excited to see Caroline - and she delivered).
It can lead to backlash, as I said. Consider the massive hype over Wicked and how the little show that could, Avenue Q, beat it. Same with Idina over Tonya. It's very possible that all of her critical hype annoyed the Tony voters. Hype has certainly worked against movies as well (certain shows considered a LOCK for Best Picture have surprisingly fallen).
That said, I think this year is somewhat different because the two major contenders (I don't think Sutton is a real contender AT ALL) are both receiving hype of a sort. Clark is getting the "star-making role of a lifetime" hype and Applegate is being hyped for her dedication to getting this production here. I don't necessarily think the backlash from the hype of these two ladies will cause an upset (i.e. Sherie Rene Scott winning); it's definitely between these two.
It can lead to backlash, as I said. Consider the massive hype over Wicked and how the little show that could, Avenue Q, beat it. Same with Idina over Tonya. It's very possible that all of her critical hype annoyed the Tony voters. Hype has certainly worked against movies as well (certain shows considered a LOCK for Best Picture have surprisingly fallen).
That said, I think this year is somewhat different because the two major contenders (I don't think Sutton is a real contender AT ALL) are both receiving hype of a sort. Clark is getting the "star-making role of a lifetime" hype and Applegate is being hyped for her dedication to getting this production here. I don't necessarily think the backlash from the hype of these two ladies will cause an upset (i.e. Sherie Rene Scott winning); it's definitely between these two.
#48
Posted: 5/4/05 at 2:12pm
In every thread on the subject you keep saying how Christina's hype is either because she hurt her foot or because she finally got the show to Broadway, or something. Have you actually even seen her yet? The hype surrounding her is due to the fact that she is actually VERY GOOD.
If she sucked, I wouldn't say she was good just because she hurt her foot and has determination - that's absurd.
If she sucked, I wouldn't say she was good just because she hurt her foot and has determination - that's absurd.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#49
Posted: 5/4/05 at 2:14pm
Munk, the hype surrounding her prior to her coming here can hardly be because she's good. Her out-of-town reviews were anything but glowing. If anything, the hype that she's good is a direct mix of lowered expectations and rooting for her due to the hardships she's encountered.
Let me edit that by saying I'm not saying it's what you are doing...but the pre-opening hype about Applegate has been more in favor of her triumphing over adversity than her talent.
Your favoring of her can/could be because she's good, and even the cheering for her here on this board, but not the general world hype.
The hype I heard about Victoria was out-of-town as well and I was hearing, like many others, this show could win her the Tony. Same with Tonya Pinkin's performance in Caroline. The non-board hype I've heard about Applegate has been, "She's a real trooper." Hardly Tony-winning praise but it's definitely hype to say, "go see her because she's not as bad as people are saying."
I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing her. I'm not expecting to see a Tony-winning performance but she might prove me wrong. I'll let you know a week from Friday.
Let me edit that by saying I'm not saying it's what you are doing...but the pre-opening hype about Applegate has been more in favor of her triumphing over adversity than her talent.
Your favoring of her can/could be because she's good, and even the cheering for her here on this board, but not the general world hype.
The hype I heard about Victoria was out-of-town as well and I was hearing, like many others, this show could win her the Tony. Same with Tonya Pinkin's performance in Caroline. The non-board hype I've heard about Applegate has been, "She's a real trooper." Hardly Tony-winning praise but it's definitely hype to say, "go see her because she's not as bad as people are saying."
I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing her. I'm not expecting to see a Tony-winning performance but she might prove me wrong. I'll let you know a week from Friday.
Updated On: 5/4/05 at 02:14 PM
#50
Posted: 5/4/05 at 2:18pm
Why don't you actually go SEE her - so then when you run your mouth about your theories it actually means something.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
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