The big ol' original musical debate

25th annual putnam county spelling bee

Book of Mormon
Do Assassins and Pacific Overtures count?

Updated On: 2/3/12 at 12:10 AM

I think Gypsy is more on the fence than the other two I listed, because it is linear and based on a book, following the facts almost completely, while something like Assassins is independent of history, though it features historical figures.

Updated On: 2/3/12 at 12:19 AM

it's a very grey area! What about Bloody, Bloody Andrew Jackson?

I just thought of more Anything Goes, Hair, Anyone Can Whistle, and The Act (I'm just going through itunes now)

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Updated On: 2/3/12 at 12:32 AM

You're so right about the Golden Age! That's what drives me nuts about this whole thing is that people always say "why don't they make more original musicals, like they used to" WHEN! I mean way, way, way back when pre-Show Boat things were more original as in, had no source material but the shows were all revues and had no story. I do think there are more musicals being made now with movies as their source but it's just a shift from when everything was adapted from plays or books.

And side note, I mean don't get me wrong, I love Finian's Rainbow and kudos on being original but that show is crazy!

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Updated On: 2/19/18 at 02:14 AM

Actually, "Follies" is based on something that was a backstage mystery, or murder mystery it might have been. I think it was called "The Girls Upstairs" when it was in development as a straight play, but in any case it was totally turned around into something else by the authors.

Updated On: 2/4/12 at 04:16 AM

"Follies" WAS "The Girls Upstairs"

However, they were both based on the Fiddler On The Roof reunion party.

Wow...this made me ask myself, why do I have such a prejudice against new musicals that are NOT based on preexisting source material...?

Assassins is based on a play that Stephen Sondheim read when reading submissions for some kind of drama workshop.

I believe credit is even given in the libretto.

The credit is "based on an idea by Charles Gilbert, Jr". Sondheim explains in FINISHING THE HAT that all they took from Gilbert was the idea of opening the show with a shooting gallery.

I think ASSASSINS has to be considered original, despite its use of historical fact (and the one image from Gilbert). Every author takes elements from his experience for every new work. Whether those elements come from historical research or his personal life matters not.

There used to be a writing class exercise where a student was asked to draw an animal that nobody had every seen before. When the drawing was complete, the teacher would point out that the "unique" animal actually had the head of a lion, the neck of a giraffe, the tail of a horse, etc. The point was that every work that is new and original is actually just a new arrangement of preexisting elements.

Exhibit A

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From Sondheim's LOOK, I MADE A HAT (sorry, I cited the wrong book above), p. 111:

(Gilbert's play) "turned out to be the story of a disillusioned Vietnam veteran who, urged on by a mysterious and symbolic figure called the Fat Man, becomes a presidential assassin. In between episodes in the protagonist's journey were quotations from some of the assassins who had targeted presidents throughout our history, and the opening scene took place in a shooting gallery...."

So Sondheim and Weidman took (a) the title and (b) the idea of opening in a shooting gallery. Neither a title nor an idea are copyrightable, so there's a strong legal argument to be made that they didn't have to give Gilbert ANY credit. However, we'll all agree they did the honorable thing.

But the musical we all know as ASSASSINS is "based on an idea by", which is not the same thing as "based on the play/novel/film". It is NOT an adaptation by any fair definition of the word.

(ETA bobby, thank you for sharing Gilbert's comment on the subject. Understandably, he sees the Sondheim ASSASSINS in terms of what is similar to his own play. But most of what he mentions (projections?) were likely to turn up in any treatment of the theme.)

Updated On: 2/3/12 at 05:09 PM