The definition of a "flop"

Exactly what would define a show as being a flop. If a show lasts less that a year would that basically be the qualifier or is there something else?

Thanks for the input

The official definition of a "flop" is any commercial production which fails to recoup its initial investment, regardless of how long it runs. Some limited engagements have been known to recoup within two or three months and are considered "hits" and some shows which ran three or four years are still technically considered "flops" because they never paid back their investors.

It is NOT in any way a judgment on the artistic merits of the show -- it is purely a financial assessment of how a show did at the box office. If it didn't turn a profit, then it's a "flop."

Mind you some of the greatest shows ever written have been flops -- most Sondheim shows, Porgy and Bess, the original Pal Joey et al. You can certainly be a respected, award-winning artistic success and still be a "flop" at the box office.

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Updated On: 6/14/05 at 06:41 PM

Basically something that closes quickly & loses all or most (or more) of its investment

The original Follies , which ran for about a year, was considered a flop as it did not make its investment back ( which is what can be said of most Sondheim shows)

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I think that Sondheim's track record is much more a reflection of the shortcomings of theatregoers than any deficiencies in his work. But, don't cry for him. He's a very wealthy man (with 8 Tonys and a Pulitzer) and his shows (including all of the flops) are produced thousands of times a year by professional, amateur, college and high school groups around the country and around the world.

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Any show that has a poster on Joe Allen's walls is a flop.

That book is a fantastic read, nmartin! It surprised me that some of the musicals he covered in that book actually got going, much less opened!

I am always surprised what is considered a flop and a hit. It's rather sad that a musical running for 3-4 years on Broadway can never expect to make any profit and be considered a flop.

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"Alan Eisenberg came to my school last year and he said that only about 10% of shows are hits, meaning only 10% recoup their investment."

If that be the case then someone seriously has to rework the business plan. Unless of course the 10% that do profit do so at such a level to offset the loss of the other 90%.

I always thought a FLOP was the dreadful stuff like:

Kelly
Dude
Via Galactica
Carrie the Musical
Legs Diamond
Metropolis
Baby
Capeman
Jeeves
Dance of the Vampires

etc etc. etc.'

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Hmmm, lemme check my dictionary...

"Flop, see Good Vibrations"

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good vibrations

bad. bad. BAD. BADDDD!!! vibrations

Margo - I love how you added the disclaimer this time. You might want to try it in bold and all caps so there's no confusion. Hee.

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Great definition of a "flop"--it has nothing to do with merit, but money. I love the point about the shortcomings of theatergoers. "Entertainment" need not always be of the LCD..."Mamma Mia" is fun, but hardly art. And that's NOT a put-down, because it doesn't want to be anything more than that. I struggle with this all the time with my students, trying to help them to understand how rich a more difficult work might be...Sondheim seems to me to combine both art and entertainment, as most of the great writers have. There is a depth and texture to the work which makes repeated viewings revelatory and worthwhile.

I was actually gonna pose the same question today. LOL You beat me to it.

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