This man conveys my feelings of ITH...- Page 2

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:27pm

I prefer a more "in your face" portrayal of culture, but I see your point. It focused on what makes us the same rather than what makes us different.

I think it's time that shows stopped pandering to that, though, and I think it's time that more shows like this did throw it in people's faces. It's time to realize that racial issues aren't ok anymore, the civil rights movement isn't over.

Really enjoyed this conversation, thank you.

[theaterguy11]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:33pm

I think that the "in your face" approach only makes things worse off for our country. I think it fuels the fire.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:34pm

Personally, I think it's time for that to be the catalyst. Being nice isn't making people take notice any more. If people aren't giving respect, it's time to take it.

[theaterguy11]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:39pm

I might get flack for saying this, but I feel like I should be honest. I was going to see this musical off broadway one day last year. We went online to see what the show was about. When we read the description, we decided to see something else. We weren't in the mood to be lectured on how awful the white race is. We made the assumption that's what the show was. So when I finally did go and see the show, I loved every second of it. I left with even more respect for that culture. I've seen other shows that kind of push the issue in our faces. I don'r relate to them and feel like the musical is kind of telling me off in a way. I sort of felt that way at Passing Strange. But I respect your opinion.

[Steve2]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:42pm

I have the same story, theaterguy. If it weren't for the recommendations here, I wouldn't have seen it.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:43pm

I hear that theaterguy, and a lot of people feel that way, and it's not your fault.

But it is wrong, in my opinion, but entertainment is entertainment, and sometimes you don't want to be reminded of what our people have done. But just think, if you went out and tried to make a difference, you probably wouldn't be saddled with the guilt that comes along with seeing a show like Passing Strange and realizing how bad it is for some people.

[kidmanboy]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:48pm

It's funny because nothing in Passing Strange made me at all feel guilty about being white. That show was about breaking free of racial stereotypes and categories of all kinds and just being your own person. THAT to me is where the dialogue on race should be going, not yelling at you about it, nor presenting racial issues without really complaining about them.

However, at one point in ITH, a character menions how eventually all of NYC will be bought out by rich white people or something of the such. That made me a bit uncomfortable. Should I feel guilty for living here?

Again, interesting and daring conversation. Much rather be discussing this than whether a show is "good" or "bad."

[theaterguy11]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:50pm

I never felt GUILTY during Passing Strange. I was angry that it seemed like the musical was trying to make me feel that way though. I have no reason to feel guilty.

[kidmanboy]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:55pm

Just curious, can you give a particular example? I don't think the show was making anyone feel guilty, except perhaps Youth himself.

[theaterguy11]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:55pm

I still really think that In the Heights is the most progressive musical playing on Broadway right now. It made a difference for ME. I hope that it becomes a huge hit.

[theaterguy11]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 5:57pm

I can't think of a specific line. In general, it was mostly coming from Stew.

[dancingthrulife04]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 7:25pm

However, at one point in ITH, a character mentions how eventually all of NYC will be bought out by rich white people or something of the such. That made me a bit uncomfortable. Should I feel guilty for living here?


You mean this?:

"I'm gonna miss this place to tell you the truth
Kevin, dispensing wisdom from his dispatch booth,
And at dawn, the ladies of the salon
Now we're all movin on, and who's gonna notice we're gone?
When our job's done
As the evening winds down to a crawl, son
Can I ease my mind when we're all done
When we've resigned in the long run
What do we leave behind?
Most of all I miss Abuela's whispers
Doing the lotto pick 6 every Christmas
In five years, when this whole city's rich folks and hipsters
Who's gonna miss this raggedy little business?"

Obviously that was paraphrased a little, but I really don't see how it's supposed to make anyone feel guilty. Places change. People move out, and people move in. Wasn't Washington Heights predominantly Irish at some point? Neighborhoods don't always stay the same. I took that whole thing as him wondering what will happen as the neighborhood begins to change. He says it: "What do we leave behind?"

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 7:31pm

Actually, if you do a little reading about gentrification in NYC, it's a very frightening issue, and this little phrase is very scary when you think they know that if the rich hipsters move in, they move out, no big deal right? except there's no place for them to live (as a community) that they can all afford. It's not about just moving in and moving out, it's about a cultural diaspora.

Yes, people should feel guilty, especially if you've moved into an area like that, where you can see it happening.

[dancingthrulife04]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 7:43pm

I stand corrected (and will do that reading).

I do understand what you mean, but I don't think that the intent of it was necessarily to tell the audience "You see this? You should feel guilty." I think it was more of stating the scary fact (and you're right, it is scary when you think about it).


I do love this discussion, however.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 7:45pm

Oh yeah, I don't think that it's the aim of the show to make people feel guilty, no way. But I do think it's trying to make people aware of a situation.

[SahDu]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 7:48pm

Bk-

From your last comment you seem to be saying that the races must stay separate. Why should one feel bad if they happen to move into a location that has a predominant cultural background? I disagree that people should feel guilty about moving into a cultural diaspora. That seems a pretty gross generalization, although, I may have misinterpreted your comment.
Updated On: 2/15/14 at 07:48 PM

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 7:55pm

People shouldn't feel guilty about moving into a culturally tight-knit neighborhood, but they should if by moving in they are driving the inhabitants out, which happens in a lot of NYC neighborhoods. Because they drive real estate prices up to rates which the people who were there beforehand can no longer afford, and it's not just rent, it's turning neighborhood businesses into stores that the original inhabitants can no longer afford.

In Red Hook, one of these gentrifying neighborhoods in Brooklyn, they built a Fine Fare supermarket, where there once was a local market, the prices are so high now that the people who live there actually have to go to other neighborhoods to buy their groceries, and most of them are older and don't have cars, so they are paying more just to survive, while the Fine Fare people are actually providing shuttle buses for the richer people in the Slope and surrounding areas to go to the Fine Fare (because there aren't many public transportation options in Red Hook). So these original inhabitants are being squeezed out of their homes by rising rent prices and by their local stores being turned into high-end megamarkets that they can no longer afford. So what happens? they have to move, and just like in Anatevka, they can't all move to the same area, so families and friends get split apart just so that a few rich people can get richer.

It's not right, but it's a growing reality in NYC.

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 8:04pm

Interesting discussion. I don't really have much to add, other than I agree with BKCollector in regards to that reviewer's obvious lack of knowledge when it comes to Afro/Caribbean music. I do think it's a reviewer's responsibility to do some research when tackling a subject.

I can't fully speak to issues of "guilt" in ITH. I'm not white, so I honestly have no idea what "white guilt" feels like. I've experienced some form of it or other, but not in the same way, of course. I don't think the point of the show is to make people in the audience feel uncomfortable for their compliance in these characters' fates, or the fact that the neighborhood is changing, and becoming too expensive, etc. It's more about understanding where these people are coming from, what their experiences as displaced citizens is like. There's no finger pointing, it's just a fact of life. If someone in the audience feels that this is done judgementally, it's not necessarily the creator's fault. you know?

But I do think it's interesting that this discussion is being addressed in racial terms, since within the show ITSELF, the issue is tackled. When Nina's dad announces that he plans to sell his business in order to help pay for his daughter's tuition, Benny, himself an outsider living in a community culturally and racially different than his own, actually throws that in Nina's face - how he's now out of a job, all because of the privileged girl whose daddy will give her anything to assure her future. Nina no doubt feels some of that guilt on her shoulders. The closing of the business is going to have a detrimental effect on a community ALREADY struggling to get by. So it's not just "white" people who are ostracizing the community. And also, the selling of Rosario's business, within the context of the show, is completely justified. In other words, this isn't a clear cut issue, and I don't think the show means to be preachy in this regard.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 8:21pm

And remember, this isn't just a race issue. Gentrification is about class, not necessarily ethnicity. A lot of the "rick folks and hipsters" are black and latino.

Where my family lives, in Windsor Terrace, it's white-on-white gentrification, with the working class Irish/Italian families being priced out by other white people.

This reminds me of a joke from NewsRadio (Remember that show, LOVE IT) where beth says: "I know I'm white Dave, just not White like you."

it was a joke, but its SO true.

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 4/3/08 at 8:25pm

Right, exactly.

And I LOVEEE Newsradio.