Tonya Pinkins as Caroline- Page 2

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 2/3/05 at 3:21pm

TonyaFanatic: Well put, that's exactly how I felt. It's really a shame that the show didn't do as well as it should have, and anyone who saw it with half a brain should realize that it's one of the best shows and most amazing performance to come along in a while. I'm so glad that it's having (or had) a successful run on the west coast.

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 2/3/05 at 4:50pm

Of course Tonya should have won.I can't imagine that anyone who saw both performances would disagree with that. In my opinion Caroline is a brilliant show and whether or not you believe that, you have to at least admit that it strives for brilliance and at least attempts to say something. It never sells out for the sake of commerce either (which is of course why it closed). Wicked is fluff, even those who like it should reconcile themselves to that fact. Idina Menzel gave a predictable, underdeveloped performance in an immature, underdeveloped show, and Tonya Pinkins gave a mature, consistant, heartbreaking performance in a brilliant show. Both had trouble with their character's difficult notes- but such difficulty actually gave weight to Caroline's sorrow, while when Idina went flat, it was merely a distraction because people don't pay to see her act, they pay to see hear her sing.

In terms of performance they were on two completely different levels. It is a tragedy that Tonya didn't win.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 2/3/05 at 5:28pm

nystaeofmind: now thats what im talkin about! tell it like it is. awesome. nuff said. that should sum up everything thank u so much for getting the show and looking at it not only as a musical theater fan, but someone who wants to get a better understanding of the world around u, jus like EVERY theater fan should be.

[What Happened To Straight Thea]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 12:24am

nystate: EXACTLY! That was my point. I loved that the show wasn't a "typical broadway musical." All the concepts were there down to the scene design. If you ever notice how open everything is-- no walls, except for the washroom which is underground and closed in. So symbolically brilliant to underscore Tonya's brilliance!

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 12:31am

When I left Wonderful Town, I was humming the praises of the wonderful Donna Murphy, finally giving us a delightful and perfect comic turn.
When I left Avenue Q, I was thoroughly charmed by Stephanie D'Abruzzo as Kate (and Lucy). Oozing charm and personality.
When I left Wicked, I was impressed by the vocal power of its stars, Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth.
When I left Caroline, or Change, I felt I had just seen my generations Ethel Merman in Gypsy, or Angela Lansbury as Mame, or Carol Channing as Dolly.
Imagine my surprise on Tony night...

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 12:35am

Tom - thanks for the correction! 1943 is what I intended to say!

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 12:45am

I have to agree. While I thought all 5 ladies were terrific, for me Pinkins' performance was the stuff of Broadway legend. Simply brilliant vocally and some of the most nuanced acting I've ever seen by a musical theatre actress. A killer performance in a killer role.

Updated On: 2/4/05 at 12:45 AM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 1:10am

I, again, couldn't agree more. I'm still completely baffled as to how she managed not to witn the Tony. After all, the Tony voters are mostly producers, who (as we have seen time and time again,) usually aren't the best judges of talent.

[Justice]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 8:36am

Actually, Tony voters are peers in the theatre. Not Producers, but performers as well. I have known many actors who had performed on Broadway, that go to shows so that they can vote for the Tony's.

[OrdinaryJukebox1]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 9:23am

I love how when it comes to Tonya, all the cracking and all the flat notes are due to her "character." Yet, I'll say it again. That's not how she sounded when the show first started, and it's not what's on the OBCR. It's because she doesn't sing correctly, and her voice couldn't hold up. Why are people willing to cut her so much slack, yet when it comes to Idina Menzel and Eden Espinosa, they're "screaming" even though I have yet to hear them crack and screech and go flat the way Tonya did. Having said that, I did truly LOVE the show and I did truly LOVE Tonya. I'm just tired of people's excuses for her and no one else.

-Vincent

[Aphexis]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 9:39am

I agree that vocally, Tonya was not in the best shape. However, I go to the theatre to see actors not singers. I believed every moment of her performance and if she cracked, it worked. She's a stupendous talent and I would also have to agree that if I had it my way, which I don't, she would have won.

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 9:44am

I agree that if/when she cracked in the show, it added to the depth of her characterization. I found her to be truly mesmerizing and the show itself to be brilliantly written. One of the best things I've seen on a Broadway show in many years.

[Tom1071]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 11:49am

I saw Caroline... several times over the course of the Broadway run and she never failed to amaze me no matter what her vocal condition was. I also found her to be incredibly gracious and warm. She was always the last person to leave the theatre. She would stay until she had spoken to and signed for anyone who was waiting for her. What a lady!

The Tony should have gone to her! Enough said. Updated On: 2/4/05 at 11:49 AM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 11:51am

Very old dead horse, but I don't mind giving it one more kick at all - SHE WAS ROBBED!!!

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 12:02pm

I'll tell you why I, for one, will credit Tonya's cracking as "character" and not Idina's.
Wicked's roles are built upon vocal pyrotechnics. The whole emphasis emotionally in almost every single one of those songs is "look what I can do with my voice." At least, that's how it comes across to me. That's pretty indicative of pop songwriting in general, anyway.
Now, for Caroline. The songs were semi-operatic sendups of gospel and funk and blues and music of the period but they weren't literally pastiche. The show was through-sung and definitely had elements of magic realism but the singing was meant to be, mostly, taken for speech. Also, the emphasis of the songs in Caroline was rarely "listen to my awesome belty high note while I'm being lifted by a cherry picker." It was "I am so wrapped up in this moment and these emotions I can barely sing."
It's much the same reason poor singers are often so accepted in Sondheim shows. The intent here, as with Sondheim, is the impact of the moment and the words, not the voice.
***
Sorry, quick edit: With that said, in a role like Elphaba where the vocal style is paramount, you'd darn well be able to knock it out of the ballpark every time.
Updated On: 2/4/05 at 12:02 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 12:55pm

Justice: You don't need to explain to me who votes for the Tony Awards, I said mostly producers (which is the case) - not ALL producers.

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 1:52pm

I have this continual prayer that it after it has these successful runs in CA, and perhaps other places, it will come back to NYC. Realistic or not, that's my wish.

Tonya was amazing. The cracks made me believe her heartache even more. Beautiful, legato notes would not have worked.

[OrdinaryJukebox1]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 6:09pm

I still haven't heard why she didn't crack on the cast recording or when the show first opened if it was a character trait, which everyone seems to be in total agreement on? Who knows, maybe it's a racial thing?

-Vincent

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 6:12pm

She didn't crack all the time, we said that. We also said that later in the run when it got tough and her voice did her rough, it worked.

[commasplice]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 6:30pm

Vincent, I think what everyone means is that after the early run and the recording, when her voice started to show wear and crack from working so hard eight nights a week, it worked for the role. If it were a completely different show with a different character, the cracking wouldn't work (depending on the show, of course).

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 8:57pm

If people are gonna say Tonya wasn't up for the role I'd like to ask WHO WOULD BE. As Tesori has said it is in many ways a role that--if it had been performed in opera stages they woulda had alternates perform half the performances so she oculd rest her voice (LaChiusa said the same about Audra McDonald's role in Marie Christine).

I also thought, cracks aside, she was VERY powerful and great on the Tonys--and better on the cast album. My mom who knew nothing about the show saw the Tony clip and immediatelyw as impressed--it wasn't till I went online after that it seemed everyone hated it.

E

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 9:06pm

Oh yes Vincent, you nailed it, it's all a racial thing. :S Whatever--I agree with what was said before--Caroline was a role where the acting was paramount--pitch perfect singing WASN'T. Now if this were the lead in Dreamgirls (whichI'd assume would be played by a Black actress) someone's voice being strained and not reaching the notes WOULD be a bad thing.

It's about the CONTEXT.

E

[OrdinaryJukebox1]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 9:14pm

If it's about CONTEXT, the role would have STARTED that way and it would have been RECORDED that way!

-Vincent

[OrdinaryJukebox1]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 9:25pm

No matter what, that is my opinion. If it was meant for her character, it would have been originally done that way. It became that because her voice couldn't last. Please, don't misunderstand what I say. I LOVED the show and I LOVED Tonya! I'm just thinking that a lot of slack is being given, when not nearly as much is given to other performers who don't crack or go off key nearly as often, if at all. That is my point.

-Vincent

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 2/4/05 at 9:29pm

You obviously don't understand what various people have said. Tonya didn't always have vocal issues. Towards the end of her run, her voice grew tired and wavered a little bit. It obviously wasn't intended that way, but it didn't detract from the integrity of her character or the show - it added to the heartbreak of it. And it is certainly NOT like that for every show. It is not excusable in, let's say WICKED for Idina to start loosing her voice. It works in some cases, and doesn't in others. We're not saying that Tonya made a conscious decision to make her voice gravely - it naturally happened and it worked. Tonya never went off-pitch, ever - from what I've seen. It's not hard to understand that not every role allows that.