WIZ...traditional casting/non traditional for revival — Page 2

"[t]his is true but generally speaking there are different tones to the voices between blacks and whites."

i will be very interested to see some examples of this. be specific please.

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OK i will try for some examples. The one I had in mind when writing the last post was Chicago. I was listening to the original cast recording and when Mama came on I went "wait, this woman sounds white."

I don't know Papa maybe you are right and it is too hard to compare voices because everyone has their own distinct sound that is uniquely their own and unrelated to race or ethnicity.

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and if you listen to early elvis recordings the furor was that he sounded "black


No but ther is a song he sings on the LILO & STITCH soundtrack that makes him sound a whole lot like CHER

If done properly, an updated, contemporary inventively staged version of THE WIZ has the potential to be the most exciting revival of whatever season it will appear in.

Count me in as someone who thinks the leads should be African-American, but I think (sadly) that the rest of the cast has to be 'mixed' for crossover potential. I don't think an ALL-black Broadway show will attract the audiences today, though I'd love to be proven wrong.

My one real fear is that in updating it, "soul" will be superceded by an orgy of 'American Idol' melisma.

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Yes you ARE, papa! You are very exasperating, ya know!

But I still wonder whether Broadway audiences of the 1970s were less conservative than the Broadway audience of today.

And whatever happened to Liz Swados, anyway?

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Papa, I think you're missing the point that Billy is trying to make about the "diffrences between black voices and white voices." I think you are looking at it from a biological standpoint. I do believe that genetics has something to do with it, which I understand that you disagree with. My point is that we are talking about "soul" singing which is diffrent from what type of voice you have. Soul singing is more about how you use the voice. The prime example is Christina Aguilera. Despite the fact that she is branded a pop singer. Christina is really a soul singer because you can see that she is singing from a place of hurt an deep pain in her heart (I'm reffering to some of those more personal ballads on her newest CD) Then you have someone like Anastacia, a white women with a soulful voice, but she is not a soul singer IMO. She doesn't sing from that same place that Christina does nor Vanessa Williams or Audra Mcdonald (as much as I love them both). I think thats' what soul music, The music in The Wiz is all about. It's not about being black or white. It's really a cultural issue. And black culture is condusive to producing the type of singers that can sing the type of music in The Wiz. Soul singing, R&B, all that stuff started in the black church. Nowadays people think you can throw in some riffs and runs and vocal pyrotechnics and be a soul singer. True soul voices like Patti, Aretha, and Gladys have all been cultivated and trained in the black church. Soul music is a product of the black experience in America. I'm not sayin' you gotta go to a black church to be in The Wiz, but anybody singing that type of music has got to be aware of the roots of the music and where it originated. So, I would be for some mixed casting in this production, but you've got to have the real deal, black or white!

wow i really feel bad now for posting this thread i hope no one was offended by it.....i was jsut curious to see what peoples thoughts of it were....i myself who have seen to many all white hs and college secretly wished to see the original and hence would like to see a nice soulful black production but however they cast it i really hope it keeps the feel of the original with whatever changes are made.

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Well,

Papa, I think you and others who are thinking the way you are are totally missing the point of a musical like "The Wiz".

The Wiz WAS written for a black cast, and you can tell that by the dialogue, lingo, and the way the script was written. Kavana, Billy, and thetruth bring up some interesting points about the way "soulful singing" is presented, and how it comes about. I wouldn't consider myself a "soulful" singer, being that my style of singing these days is primarily in the musical theatre style, but that doesn't mean that I cannot switch from that style when the time is appropriate, or when need be, and sing in a more soulful way. "Soul" is a combination of state of mind, and experiences.

Whoever mentioned Christina Aguilera and Shoshana Bean really hit the nail on the head. These two if you really know their backstory realize that they have grown up in an environment of either pain, and have deep emotions welled-up inside, OR they were exposed to the type of lifestyle and to the different backgrounds and experiences needed to have a sense of soul. This is why they are able to sing in an EFFECTIVE soulful way even though they are not black.

And I DO think that there is a difference between black voices and white voices naturally. It has taken me years to try and "polish" the way voice is/was for my musical theatre studies, but now and then there is always that something in my voice that indicates that I am a black singer. I don't think we can ever get away from that - and honestly, I don't think we should. Can I tell that Audra McDonald is black when I listen to her? Yes. Norm Lewis? Brian Stokes Mitchell? LaChanze? Yes. Even though these singers all have beautiful voices, and big broadway voices, we if we listen closely, we can still tell that they are African-American.

But going back to "The Wiz" I think it is imperative that we keep this show with an predominantly black cast. Why? Unless the script is severely changed, which it shouldn't be....I think it just doesn't work otherwise. I think there are certain things that white people just can't grasp TOTALLY about the black experience, no matter how smart, and in the know the are about the struggle, and about our society, and about our lifestyle. And BELIEVE me, I am not racist, or trying to denounce diverse casting in musicals...I am all for it....when appropriate. The Wiz is NOT the show to experiment with this on. The lingo and dialogue is too specific and catered to the black experience, and it some of it would just fall flat, and lose its effect if delivered by a white person, or any other ethnicity who really doesn't grasp the meaning behind it. I've seen a production of the Wiz lately where 3 out of the 4 leads were white, and I did not enjoy the experience at all....they REALLY did not get the lingo and the meaning behind it, and it really was cringe worthy, in my opinion. And the Dorothy DID NOT have any soul whatsoever.....it just totally ruined the experience for me.

I say let Blacks and minorities have "The Wiz" please. There is no need to try and reinvent it. I feel a disaster coming on if this happens. I'm sure you CAN find the right people out there of any race to do this show well, but I seriously doubt, as Billy Lawlor said that this show was written for that intention. I am sure that William Brown and Charlie Smalls had written for black folk, and I think it should be respected for that and maintained in that way, in EVERY major revival. It WAS written for our black performers who didn't have much of an opportunity to showcase their talents due to the lack of roles that are out there for them.

As an African American actor myself, I KNOW how hard it is to be cast in these traditional musicals....It has gotten better with the non-traditional casting, but how much nicer is it to know that you have a show, or a few shows of your own that you know you don't have to worry about if you are the right skin color or type to be cast in? Me? I don't see why there can't be a Black "Seymour" "Nicely-Nicely" "Mama Rose" "Reno Sweeney" "Mrs. Lovett" the list goes on and on....but believe it or not, some casting directors out there still have problems with thinking outside of the box when it comes to this type of casting. Then again, I have played roles where I am not conventionally right for it, and it has worked. I am thankful for some of the wonderful directors who I have worked with in the past who were able to look past my color, and cast me (within logic, and not drastically changing the meaning and intention of the script)for my talents and interpretation of the role. And there have been a couple of instances where although I was glad I got the role, I felt that it was borderline pushing it.

Just as I would not immediately warm up to a white Dorothy, I don't know if I would warm up immediately to a black Tevye in Fiddler....although I am sure in both cases a capable actor/actress could allow me to suspend my disbelief, I don't know if that is pushing it. At least, I would feel uncomfortable if I were cast in any of the previous 2 situations. And this is coming from someone who LOVES "Fiddler" and the role of "Tevye", and who would love to play the role. But to each his own.

Just my 2 dollars worth.

Cheers,
The Balladeer

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Updated On: 3/1/04 at 01:12 AM

KAVANA-- and now in English please?

I am sorry, I was trying to follow you there but you went all over the board.

And by the way, We are all not bigots but I have to admit that show me someone who is 100% politically correct and I will have some ocean front property in Colorado for you to buy.

i would like to say something to broadwayguy. The most insidious thing about being black in america is that the principles you are talking about are right. when applied fairly. It is painful to anyone black or gay or nonwhite to be outside the application of those principles everyday and when one situation comes along that was created to give you a shot, good people like you decide the APPLY the noble principle and say that NO THE WIZ should be cast according to these high diversity standards. Yet sadly your voice is silent when Little Shop or NINE or Gypsy etc comes on line. Its only when the chance for a majority black cast show is discussed that your voice becomes heard.

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OK, put two white pople in like Millie and 42nd street and call it a day.

Or, have em come out and sing a showstopper then fade in the background with no type of recognition (Hairspray).

thetruth that is so funny what you wrote and the truth!!!!!! LOL :)