WIZ...traditional casting/non traditional for revival — Page 3

"original intent" intent would be dirived from the book of the piece... and as has been said, the book is being changed.. and what was the intent of the first version, may not in fact be the intent of the second.

Thetruth, I absolutely agree with your comments about mixed casting with shows like Annie and Little Shop, and Gypsy. These shows don't have any language or specific styles that are catered to a specific group. Even Fiddler can be done that way, but I have always felt that it is borderline pushing it when you cast the leads in any other ethnicity that would not pass for a Russian Jew during those times. I'm not against it, but I think that something like that should be handled with care especially since "Fiddler" is a show that deals with struggles that pertain to the a specific Jewish community. Although we all can relate to oppression and strife and struggle on some level, I don't think the integrity and the message of the show should be compromised just for the sake experimentation. Hell, I've played Motel before, but I don't know if I would want to play Tevye someday even if I were offered the part...I just would think it's pushing the logic and the purpose of color-blind casting.

Cheers,
The Balladeer

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Oy...I'm swamped at work...but I had to bring up one point.

Everyone is ignoring what has happened in popular culture since THE WIZ first came out. Black music, language and culture has been appropriated by white suburban kids to a remarkable degree.

THE WIZ is a show based on a 'white' property and given a 'black' spin. For the early 70's, it was new and fresh (though not well-reviewed...all of you thinking this show is up there with GYPSY in terms of quality should look again). Today, an all-black WIZ would reek of the minstrel show. BRING IN 'DA NOISE... and nearly the entirety of George C. Wolfe's writings have in a way debunked the popularity of THE WIZ in it's original form.

I truly believe that THE WIZ can't work with an all-black cast not because and all-black cast can't sell, but because time has marched on and rendered that sort of entertainment obsolete.

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Robbie,

I think your whole post has it backwards. It WOULD be a minstrel show if an all white cast attempted to perform the show and the lingo. And do it in a way that is almost poking fun at it. That's the dilemma with including white characters in the leads....either you make fun of the material, be tongue-in-cheek, or play it sincerely. Either way, it is bound to fall flat on its face and even insult some. They just can't do it. It's embarrassing for the performers, and for the audience, especially black audiences.

As a black performer, and a young man who has grown up watching and listening to the Wiz, I have no problem seeing the dialogue and the show performed how it was originally written and conceived. Yes there are a lot of jokes, and even some stereotypes related to the black culture, but you see, I think the thing about African-Americans overall is that we are willing to laugh at ourselves, and are fully aware of how we portray ourselves. Especially in something like The Wiz, which is light-hearted, a farce, and fun. That is how we were able to overcome and persevere through all the hardships that we have endured in the past. WE CAN laugh at ourselves. And the material in that show does not go THAT far to the extent that it makes a mockery of who we are.

I don't see what point you're trying to make at all. And I find you to be a very intelligent young man, but I think you are taking whatever sympathy/empathy you might have, and getting carried away with it, honestly. But I thank you for your sentiments.

As for your point on the lingo becoming part of white suburban culture, you are just supporting my whole point, and thetruth's point, and others who talk about what "soul" REALLY is. Do you think that these white suburban kids who MOST of them grow up in an environment where they are not really exposed to most of the world out there, REALLY have an iota of what most of the lingo REALLY means, and where it derives from? Honestly, I think not. The popularity of it all comes from them thinking it's the cool thing to do now...but they have NO clue how these things all came about. And when they do it, in my honest opinion, it sounds stupid, and makes them look clueless, and that much more ignorant.

Just my 2 cents.


Cheers,
The Balladeer

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Updated On: 3/2/04 at 02:02 PM

Robbie,

Wow, now that does sound interesting.....granted that there is actually THOUGHT behind the casting, and not multi-ethnic casting just for the sake of it. And you know, I wouldn't have a problem with using other minorities in The Wiz, because face it, Latinos, and Asians, and Pacific Islanders, and others of darker skin tones really don't have that many opportunities. I just feel that casting without much thought would really ruin something special.

Cheers,
The Balladeer

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What this thread suggests -- particularly the latest impassioned and thoughtful debate between Robbie and Balladeer -- is: This is so not the time for this show to return. Cast with blacks, whites, both, or authentic Munchkins, it's not likely to sell. The idea that it will benefit from the "Wicked" phenom is lame logic. "Wicked" is a new story, whether you like it or not, you know you'll find surprises. I buy all arguments above re why folks won't buy tix to a "Wiz". Remember, the last time it came back ... it played the Beacon Theater, B'way and 74th. And didn't sell well.

If it must return, then why not as a charming new TV version? Using current pop stars? The existing film is a debacle, with murky cinematography, ugly sets, a make-up free Ross playing "shy" trying to warm our cockles. I'll watch it at home for free, but wouldn't plunk down a hundred bucks (or 51.50) to dart out on a cold night and see it at the Virginia.

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Updated On: 3/2/04 at 07:48 PM

The Wiz has got to go through a major revamp (book, esp) so it doesn't sound outdated to the point of being absurd (right on man, jive turkey, slap me five kinda stuff) The current book of that show is loaded with junk like that. I have got to say that anyone who has been black for a day and a half just festers with pus over not that dorothy would be cast non black, but that white people only want to see multi ethnic casting when i comes to black shows. Of course a new vision should prevail, but WHY DO YOU ONLY CARE WHEN IT'S A BLACK SHOW? I never see a debate and i mean never over GYPSY or NINE or any other revival. NEVER...

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because we're all secretly racists who want to see blacks excluded from all theatre, especially shows that were written for them. man that's our favorite and we get such a sense of pride when we can influence folks to avoid casting black folks in black shows. that is at least when we are not out there burning crosses and planning lynchings, which as eveyone knows take up most of our time.

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Well count me as one honky who would love to see an all-black STREETCAR or CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF.

But the fact that alot of you are not even reading the reasonings some of us are posting as to why we should have a multi-culti WIZ. And that's distressing.

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papalovesmambo
of course we all know racism is not the driving force for all people white black or otherwise. Now... take the question to heart and make an attempt to see the truth of my observation and try to put your honest thoughts on the board. Your post is nonsense and pours water on an issue that is real and worth discussing. If you just want to dismiss the facts thats another thing. think of a discussion on why gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married like everyone else and some straight observer saying, "because everyone hates gays and wishes they would get straight and stop wining about not being like everyone else... their not!" this would be nonsense and be an obvious stupid answser from someone who knows gays are discriminated against but just wants them to shut up and stay in their silly little place and stop trying to get justice. In other words the observer doesnt have an answer for the question. he just doesnt effect him so dismiss it. he knows the real truth but so what... who cares.

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I think the show should be given a chance to thrive in it's original format first. If LATER they find that there is indeed room or need for change/non-minority casting, then so be it.

wouldn't WHAT cost a lot of money? If you mean to "retool" the show after it has opened - most definitely.

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crp-

the original casting of the show is black...not 'minority'. That statement implies all colors (except white) are created equal (which I don't thing you believe for a second).

The point is the Dodgers are NOT CASTING A WHITE PRODUCTION. It will be a multi-ethnic production which is appropriate to the times we are living in and can, indeed, make a powerful statement.

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