Was Merman Losing to Martin a Shock at the Time?- Page 2

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 4:16pm

Why does a Gypsy thread always go to LuPone? I'm starting to think that certain users aren't even familiar with some of the big Roses! I mean, adore her performance and hope she wins the TOny, but I'm starting to think that the number of people who can reference something before Rent is getting lower and lower each day! For me, each Rose brought her own style to the role. THat's why it is such a sought after part. You can play it so many ways.

[SirNotAppearing]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 5:17pm

Ugh.
EVERY THREAD has to turn into a palace for the Patti queens.
It's one of the unspoken rules of BroadwayWorld.

And now get ready to be LuPwned!



IT'S SO FREAKING FUNNY!
Updated On: 6/1/08 at 05:17 PM

[sally1112]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 5:37pm

I WAS really enjoying this thread, and learning somethings too. But,
I'll leave now...

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 5:54pm

From Brian Kellow's Bio of Ethel:
"A wave of disappointment swept over the company with the presentaion of the 1960 Tony Awards. GYPSY was nominated in eight major categories, including Best Musical, Best Actress in a Musical (Ethel), Best Featured Actor and Actress in a Musical (Klugman and Church), though not inexplicably, for Laurent's brilliant script. But GYPSY failed to take home a single Tony.
....Mary Martin was given the Best Actress prize that many had "Automatically" assumed would go to Ethel."

Hmmm.

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 6:16pm

Having been there at the time, the answer is YES!!!!! Everyone assumed Merman was going to get it (deservedly so) and she gave a powerhouse performance. Martin was okay, doing what Martin did so well (even though she was somewhat old for the role). I think time has vindicated Merman's performance as one of the outstanding musical theatre performances of the 20th Century. Martin, though certainly deserving for South Pacific and Peter Pan, was simply not in the same league in that particular show. I think a much better showcasing of Martin's talents was put forth later in I Do! I Do!, a role much more demanding in its requirements. And as for Laurents' comments, he can stick it where the sun don't shine.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 6:24pm

To be fair, Sondheim says something very similar to what Laurents says re Merman, except he says it in much nicer terms. But he basically says that Merman did not really understand "Rose's Turn" and had to memorize the beats.
I wasn't there, so perhaps even if the feelings did not come natural to Merman, she delivered them convincingly enough.
I think Merman's performance has gone down as being legendary, whereas I've yet to hear anyone reference THE SOUND OF MUSIC when talking about Mary Martin's brilliance.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 6:34pm

From Keith Garebian's THE MAKING OF GYPSY:
"But the one category that should have been a shoo-in for GYPSY came up empty too--- and that was the scandal of the whole affair. True there was memorable competition in the Best Actress division with Carol Burnett, Delores Grey, Eileen Herlie and Mary Martin all deserving of accolades, but surely the most unforgettable musical performance of the year--a truly legendary one-- was Merman's and she had Won the critic's poll but she lost to her friend Mary Martin"

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 7:57pm

Earlier in this thread Merman was described as a loudmouth, pushy broad, which I guess she was in some of her day to day life. But as a musical actress, she was a consummate professional and was recognized as that by the Broadway community. In a slim book of Broadway anecdotes titled "Sing Out, Louise", the opening section tells about the run-through of GYPSY on the bare stage of the Winter Garden, before a full audience of Broadway actors, actresses, and gypsies on a Sunday afternoon. This was before the show opened at the Broadway Theatre. The other performers of GYPSY wore casual rehearsal clothes. Ethel Merman wore an elegant suit. When she started down the aisle of the Winter Garden, the entire audience stood up, but in silence, as if standing at attention. Merman said a simple "Thank you" and the performance started. Without sets, costumes, and orchestra--just a single piano--it was said to have been a stunning performance, with Merman being remarkable. Here, she was in her element, and the audience showed their appreciation. Thus the saga of Merman on Broadway reached its zenith.

Updated On: 6/1/08 at 07:57 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 8:03pm

Oh, I also remember Sondheim saying how Merman couldn't resist the urge to take a bow after the audience went nuts for "Rose's Turn" which displeased Laurents (and if I remember correctly, Sondheim as well). Of course Laurents went on to add the bowing to the Lansbury revival to point out that the applause was in Rose's head.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 8:08pm

Going back to LuPone, Forgive me!

I love how on Broadway, she doesn't use the traditional post-Merman ROSE'S TURN bow. She milks the audience in her own way, while still keeping the fantasy in her head.

Updated On: 6/1/08 at 08:08 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 8:57pm

You mean the "LuPwned" thing is an ANTI-Patti thing?

I keep seeing it as a tribute.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 10:51pm

As far as her acting, here are some of the Merm's reviews when GYPSY first opened:
Richard Watts in the NEW YORK POST:
"her incomparable ability to belt out a song has long been one of the joys of the theatre, but she is likewise a brilliant actress, as GYPSY proves. By playing the ruthless mother mercilessly but adding her own quality of humanity, she makes the dreadful lady terrifying but somehow gallant and even pathetic."
Brooks Atkinson in the NEW YORK TIMES:
"Since she acts the part of an indomitable personality, she gives an indomitable performance, both as actress and singer."
Kenneth Tynan in the New Yorker:
"Miss Merman not only sings, she acts"
"I would not say that she acts very subtly; Rose, after all, with her dreams of glory, her kleptomania, her savage parsimony, and her passion for exotic animals (*real animals) and Chinese breakfasts, is scarcely a subtle character. Someone in the show describes her as 'a pioneer women without a frontier' and that is what Miss Merman magnificently plays"

So well written.

And proving that reviews don't always win the TONY.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 6/1/08 at 11:37pm

A few years ago in an interview published in The Toronto Star, Sondheim told Richard Ouzounian that Merman was better in the first half which had a lot of "low comedy" (the hotel room scene, the Chinese restaurant scene) and she wasn't as good in the more dramatic second half. On Balance Sondhem says that Lansbury was brilliant in the second half, but not as funny in the first half.

All this proves is there is no single "correct" way to play the role. Each actress brings different values to the part. And we are lucky the show has been revived in enough different interpretations to continue to fuel arguments.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 6/2/08 at 9:28am

As for Merman not acting the dramatic parts well in the 2nd Act of GYPSY, I have to disagree and say that she was dramatically powerful in her confrontation with Herbie over her having Louise take the stripper part and Herbie's decision to leave Rose. She held Herbie's hand on her shoulder when she asked plaintively, "Herbie... why does everybody walk out?" with her voice cracking. And then a few lines later, her sad but defiant "You go to Hell". She was very moving in that scene.

I have a few thoughts on the different ways that the various Roses have handled the theatre audience's loud applause following the completion of the singing of "Rose's Turn". I don't honestly remember how Merman handled it, following her very effective delivery of this "nervous breakdown" song, other than letting the applause engulf her. I do remember Lansbury's way of responding, which differed in the pre-Broadway London production which Laurents directed also. In London, she did not continue bowing after the audience's applause stopped. In NYC, she DID continue bowing after the applause stopped, after delivering a searing, almost too angry rendition of "Rose's Turn". I personally thought that the continued bowing was overkill, with Laurents possibly feeling that the audience wouldn't "get it" unless the continued bowing made it clear that it was all in Rose's head. Tyne Daly, also directed by Laurents, performed it with a less angry "Rose's Turn", but with the continued bowing. I think Bernadette Peters also did the continuous bowing, even though she was directed by Sam Mendes.

Personally, I like the way Patti LuPone is handling the response to the audience's applause better than all of the previous Roses: She milks the applause and basks in its recognition of HER, if only in her imagination. Once the applause finally dies down, she does NOT continue bowing or milking an imaginary applause; she doesn't need to because we, the audience, get it. Her "Rose's Turn" is on a par with Merman's, and her response to it even surpasses Merman's.

The whole applause situation has another factor to be considered and it was Oscar Hammerstein, mentor to Stephen Sondheim, who
enters the scene. During the writing of GYPSY, Hammerstein was asked his opinion about various aspects of the book and score. He noted that all of Rose's songs ended in either a blackout, a scene change, or a first act curtain, with the star of the show not being present on stage to receive such applause. Hammerstein pointed out that there was a need for the audience to see the recipient of the applause be present on stage, and "Rose's Turn" fits that need. After that there is a brief coda of dialogue with its tentative healing of the wounds inflicted by Louise's confrontation with Rose in the dressing room, and then the final curtain can fall. In the present production, Rose has a silent reach towards her name in lights as it slowly dims and goes out. Rose now has to move on. Then the curtain falls.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/2/08 at 11:30am

Why does a Gypsy thread always go to LuPone?

Because she's currently starring in the show on Broadway, which was highly publicized and anticipated? I mean, it's not like it comes out of nowhere. The buzz has been huge ever since the Ravinia concert almost 2 years ago. I don't think it has anything to do with being ignorant about the past Gypsy productions, but that the current production is on the forefront of people's minds, especially with the Tonys just around the corner.