What if nobody had written Wicked?- Page 3
What if nobody had written Wicked?
#50re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:11pmHey, it wasn't my statement that Ave Q and Bare wouldn't exist without Wicked. I was refrencing someone else's statement. I know my theater history. I know the power of Rent. I also know that there was nothing notable in the history of theater prior to Rent.
#51re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:18pm
Yeah but the original poster said they wouldn't exist without Rent, not Wicked.
And I quote ... "If there was no RENT I doubt there would be things like Avenue Q and BARE, and Sondheim would have a monopoly on broadway, but at least La Cage would still get revived next year..."
:)
#52re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:22pm
I relize I make no sense and my logic is messed up, but I atribute many things to other things. I also attribute part of RENT's success to the fact that it's writer died two weeks prior to it's release. I think theater would be totally different if RENT was not made because it did make such an inpact.
I don't think Wicked will make an impact at all. But I think it deserves a Tony' or at least Schwartz does.
If no one wrote Wicked, we wouldn't be having this argument, and we wouldn't know Broadway with Wicked.
MasterLcZ
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/12/03
#53re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:29pm
"I also attribute part of RENT's success to the fact that it's writer died two weeks prior to it's release."
This is known as the "Gower Champion" effect.
Plum
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/4/04
#54re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:38pmHate to say this, but even RENT wasn't that revolutionary. It was hardly the first rock musical- it was sort of the return of rock musicals. So it influenced things, no doubt, but it's not as seminal as it's made out to be sometimes...
#55re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:40pmHair!!! Jesus Christ, Superstar!!! Tommy!!!
#56re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:40pm
"I think theater would be totally different if RENT was not made because it did make such an inpact"
To be serious for a moment, I do get what you are saying. This same comment can and has been made about many other plays long before Rent. Every so often a show comes along which breaks from the traditional, is seen as innovative and is be considered the new wave of theater. So, your comment about rent being one of these shows is true. However, there have many other shows in the past that paved the way for Rent. Look at Jesus Christ SS. It was the Rent of it's era as was Hair, Oh Calcutta. Then later on Sondheim's music broke some traditional barriers. So, had it not been Rent, there would have been another show which would have been the trend setter for this era.
That's one of the wonderful things about theater history. There is always something new and innovative and one of these shows paves the way for writers and composers to try something new. That's why I get so annoyed with the "Wicked/Rent is the first innovative piece of theater" attitude.
#57re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:41pmNow back to really important issues. I think Urine Heads would be great. I want to be the first to start it.
#58re: What if nobody had written Wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:45pm'Rent' did give 90's kids a voice in theater, no doubt. The eighties musicals were big and vague and generic. That's not to dismiss them, they just weren't especially personal or specific. They were big, sweeping shows aimed at a general audience. 'Rent' at least dealt with personal issues of the day, not generic themes of 200 years ago.
#59re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 3:46pmi think what we all need to recognize here is that had wicked not been written it would have found another way to come int existence because clearly there was a great need for it. i defy you to show me another show which is serving the green wiccan community. it was inevitable.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
MusicMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/16/03
#60re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 9:23pm
If nobody had written Wicked, it wouldn't be as bad as it is now.
#61re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 9:28pm
If nobody wrote Wicked, we'd be talking about "Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister" in its place.
Barbara
#62re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 10:19pm
i think that every successful show experiences a backlash. ive heard people bash "the producers", "millie", "hairspray", etc., etc... all the major hits of their seasons. yes, the big hit of the season is usually very mainstreme-geared (i'll admit, "wicked" definetly is) but that is WHY it is a hit, and people, we need hits to keep broadway alive.
i'll agree with anyone who says that wicked has flaws, ive read the book, and they watered it down so much that you need to see the green on idina's face before you can recognize the story. it is a difficult issue because i often have problems with people choosing commerce over art, but that dicision has to be made sometimes or else how could broadway stay afloat? shows which take the high road dont always make it.
call it selling out, your right, but the producers are making money and bringing people to the theater, and they dont care what the more critical viewers think. if they did, they'd have asked sondheim to write "wicked", and although it would have been brilliant, it may have closed already.
#63re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 10:24pmWhy is everyone so obsessed with Sondheim? It seems that for any criticism on any music of any show, there seems to be this belief that if only Sondheim had wrote it, it would suddenly become a perfect show. There are other good composers in the world today.
Matt_G
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/1/04
#64re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 10:26pm
Because Soneheim has penned some of the best and most influential musicals in the history of musical theater.
-Matt
#65re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 10:30pmthanks matt. i advise you (shira) to go off and find some of his OBC's and see for yourself, or get the video of "putting it together"
#66re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 10:34pmI have the OBC's of SITPWG, Company, - while I will attest that the lyrics tend to be wonderful, the music is, to me, almost generic. I have yet to hear a female vocal role that gives her voice a chance to leap to great heights. It seems very set in just two octaves - maybe I haven't heard the song that makes me go "wow" yet, and if not, i'll take suggestions.
Plum
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/4/04
#67re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 11:10pm
I have yet to hear a female vocal role that gives her voice a chance to leap to great heights.
If that's what makes you go wow, listen to opera. Sondheim writes for actors who sing- every song is written with whoever was cast in mind. The Ladies Who Lunch was written for Elaine Stritch (and I can't believe that song doesn't make you go wow), Mrs. Lovett's songs were written for Angela Lansbury, etc. The notes he writes are about the character, the situation, the emotions of the moment- he doesn't write to stretch the actor's singing range, but his or her acting range. That's why I never find them generic.
If sound is what makes you go wow- well, first of all, I think Sunday is a great sweeping number like that, but obviously you don't agree. Maybe you'll like A Little Night Music, which I find to be very "pretty," especially when you compare it with Company, or maybe you'd like Sweeney Todd, which is sometimes quasi-operatic.
But really, I don't know what to tell you. I guess don't empathize with your criterion for "wow." The Sondheim songs that make my jaw drop are usually either amazing feats of wordplay, like A Little Priest (Sweeney Todd), or great emotional moments, like We Do Not Belong Together. The latter actually made me cry the first time I listened to it.
Pacific Overtures has some lovely songs, especially Someone in a Tree and the hilarious Please Hello, but it'll probably be too "out there" for your taste. You might like Into the Woods, but I wouldn't count on it. So...I guess in the end I'd recommend Sweeney Todd and A Little Night Music. I hope you like them. :)
Updated On: 5/5/04 at 11:10 PM
#68re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 11:15pmThank you for the suggestions. What may affect my perception is that I've never actually seen the shows. Just the music. So I guess my criticism is one sided. Maybe I'll pick up some of the DVDs (even though it will never be like seeing the real thing) and understand what you're saying. Thanks.
Jamie Hat
Broadway Star Joined: 4/5/04
#69re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 11:17pm"No, it's just for the first time...I feel...avenue."
Matt_G
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/1/04
#70re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 11:21pmAbsolutely. Watch SUNDAY IN THE PARK. Listen to the music. It's just beautiful! I never saw the show live with the OBC but than again, most people didn't. I really don't think it will matter. Just sit back and prepare to be blown away. It really is a masterpiece of musical theater.
Corine2
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/14/03
#71re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/5/04 at 11:28pm
I loved the women in Wicked but (please no hate mail) but if i had to pick best musical it would be AVENUE Q. I also love
Caroline or Change and Wonderful Town and Assassins.
But out of all the shows Avenue Q is the one that I wish I had the money to invest in.
I LOVE AVENUE Q.
Hope Lopez, and Marx win big because the little show that could should win.
If only I could vote.
Caroline Or Change would be my second choice and even though I loved Assassins I love Wonderful Town in the revival category.
I want a tie for Donna Murphy and Stephanie D'Abruzzo all the women this year deserve awards as they are all outstanding every one of them.
Updated On: 5/5/04 at 11:28 PM
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#72re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/6/04 at 12:39amAh there's Corine with one of her inevitable ties. Perhaps they could just give Tonys to every nominee and have one big tie fest!
Corine2
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/14/03
#73re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/6/04 at 12:50am
Namo-
This year i loved:
Stephanie D'Abruzzo first then;
Donna Murphy
Chenowith
Menzel
Pinkins
All women were incredible but Steph and Donna made me cry.
LOVE THEM.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#74re: what if nobody had written wicked?
Posted: 5/6/04 at 12:53amYes, Corine, I know. You have regaled us with many lists of things you've loved. Now maybe the Tonys can be held in your fantasy land of Gumdrop Island where there are six-way ties for awards and everybody rides a marshmallow raft up a foamy root beer river to collect their statues!!!
Videos