What's Happening to GOOD Theater?

[Sondheimman132]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 5:01pm

Where is really GOOD THEATER GOING?
with all the Jukebox Musicals (MAMA MIA, ALL SHOOK UP, MOVING OUT, etc.) Where have the good shows gone?
The new shows that come out are, unfortunately, not so great. Dracula....not so great.
The Frogs...as much as i love Sondheim, not so great.
Brooklyn...not so great.
Also, revivals are the other thing keeping the theater alive. With shows like LA CAGE AUX FOLLES and PACIFIC OVERTURES, at least there is a fraction of good shows on broadway. Is Broadway leaving? Because recently, the only good shows I have seen are in London.
What happened to the good shows?

Updated On: 12/20/04 at 05:01 PM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 5:04pm

Well, according to some.....the "good" shows are coming late this season. When WOMAN IN WHITE gets here I bet it will be great (if the AMAZING cast recording is any hint). But, yes..I agree. I am getting tired of shows based on people's music and the whole movie to musical craze, even though I like the cd to Hairpsray.

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 5:05pm

Good theatre is happening everywhere. Just not necessarily on Broadway.

Go see BUG or DOUBT or FAT PIG or something at the Mint or the Pearl.

Plenty of good theatre to be had.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 5:47pm

You said it, Robbie! Support the good sh*t!!

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 5:48pm

GOOD theatre as you call it is gone because bronx is taking over Broadway!!! Get ready for more musicals like DRACULA, BOMBAY DREAMS, and MOVIN' OUT!!! I am now planning to bring to Broadway "Rural City Folk: The Space Opera" which is a 45-minute reality show stunt spectaucular based on the songs of Bruce Springstein which will presented at the Eugene O'Neill Theatre soon to be renamed the Jet Blue Theatre and pizza and chicken wings will be offered along with soda and popcorn for everyone to take back to their seats. There will be tons of special effects that will beat DRACULA's out of the water. The show will be nomintated for 8 Tony Awards and run until the year 2139

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 5:55pm

It depends on what you call "good theatre", but if you look ahead, there are lots of great possibilities on their way including The Light at the Piazza, Spamalot, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Little Women, Woman in White, Jerry Springer the Opera, not to mention the plays. Hardly an indication that "Broadway is leaving".

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:05pm

The critics killed them & have scared away others who might want to write for Broadway. Why put all toil & effort into a work & have a few no talent hacks decide its fate.

The Broadway graveyard is littered with the corpses of promising composers & lyricists such as

1. Those who did the score for The Yearling
2. Those who did the score for Drat The Cat

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:10pm

bronx, is there any truth to the rumor that 49th street will be closed indefinitely to automobile traffic to allow all day tractor pulls outside your masterpiece?

[zippyjen]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:10pm

i was kind of wondering the same thing. I am not looking foward to seeing musicals based on music already created. It is kind of ridiculous i think to create a story based on songs that are not really related to each other.

[MaTakeALookAtMe]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:14pm

What do you mean? I'm looking forward to "The Lizzie Maguire MUsical" based on the music of Hillary Duff...

[dry2olives]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:28pm

I blame it all on Pippin, the most influential musical of the 20th Century. Before Pippin experimented with TV advertising the thought of a musical running more than 10 years was crazy. But Pippin, and soon after Grease, Evita, The Wiz and Shenandoah, proved that a great television campaign can extend a show's run by many years by reaching out to people who don't go to the theatre.

Right now, I'd say the highest percentage of money spent on Broadway tickets comes from people who only see Broadway theatre a few times a year. Their taste, and especially what they demand in musical theatre, is very different from those who attend regularly.

[zippyjen]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:32pm

dry2olives, you bring up a good point about the tourists who see only a few shows a year. THey want to see something safe, something that is familiar to them and that would me mamma mia or the lion king etc. But i am still waiting for a new amazing musical to come our way.

[Eponinez.Rain]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:40pm

Well, I don't really have a problem with HOW you create a musical as long as its good... the movies turned musical don't bother me as long as they don't become TOO frequent (Dirty Rotten Scoundrels is going too far... putting a movie that starred Michael Caine and Steve Martin on stage? Come on! I loved that movie, but without them it probably would have sucked! I just can't see that being successful). But I LOVED Hairspray and I'm optomistic about Spamalot. But Dirty Rotten Scoundrels... and then this wave of musicals based on music is bad. I mean, once in awhile a musical based on music already written CAN be good. Mamma Mia looked okay, though I never saw it, and I personally loved the way they used already written material in Moulin Rouge (I just thought it was really cool how they took all those different songs and put them together to form a story line). So they CAN be good if done really well. I don't have any interest in Moving Out, All Shook Up, Good Vibrations, etc. though. None at all. Blech. And there are just too many of them. One or two is definately enough.

Interestingly enough, when we were in NYC, my mom saw a sign for Dracula and said, "Geez, they need some new material." And I do agree.

[Eponinez.Rain]

Posted: 12/20/04 at 6:40pm

Well, I don't really have a problem with HOW you create a musical as long as its good... the movies turned musical don't bother me as long as they don't become TOO frequent (Dirty Rotten Scoundrels is going too far... putting a movie that starred Michael Caine and Steve Martin on stage? Come on! I loved that movie, but without them it probably would have sucked! I just can't see that being successful). But I LOVED Hairspray and I'm optomistic about Spamalot. But Dirty Rotten Scoundrels... and then this wave of musicals based on music is bad. I mean, once in awhile a musical based on music already written CAN be good. Mamma Mia looked okay, though I never saw it, and I personally loved the way they used already written material in Moulin Rouge (I just thought it was really cool how they took all those different songs and put them together to form a story line). So they CAN be good if done really well. I don't have any interest in Moving Out, All Shook Up, Good Vibrations, etc. though. None at all. Blech. And there are just too many of them. One or two is definately enough.

Interestingly enough, when we were in NYC, my mom saw a sign for Dracula and said, "Geez, they need some new material." And I do agree.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/21/04 at 1:12pm

"bronx, is there any truth to the rumor that 49th street will be closed indefinitely to automobile traffic to allow all day tractor pulls outside your masterpiece?"

Yes! The rumor is true! We are also planning to renovate the Eugene O'Neil Theatre (soon to be the Jet Blue Theatre - we have a deal with them) with a special peanut gallery and new seats that will rotate and move around during the show similar to a motion simulator ride but closer to the rotating stage and stalls of the London production of CATS. Please do come see it!!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/21/04 at 1:18pm

The reason theatergoers are looking for familiarity is that they are paying through the nose for their tickets, and that is after the cost of traveling, hotels, food, etc. for many of them. They can't afford a wild card.

Talk to the unions and theater owners (remember, the producers get paid AFTER everyone else is paid). The reason people went to the theater as often as they did the movies years ago is because theater cost LESS than the price of a movie ticket - because the actors, stagehands, musicians, and theater owners were satisfied with making a decent living like the rest of us, just doing what they loved.

[diva007]

Posted: 12/21/04 at 3:57pm

All the good theatre is non-musial theatre.
Frozen, I am my own Wife, Proof etc etc.
The Musicals are in a transsition period right now so they are putting out garbage to keep an audience.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 12/21/04 at 4:17pm

I was just about to say that most of the "good" theatre right now lies in straight plays. And it's sad that those amazing shows don't last for nearly as long as they should because people want to see spectacle. The "jukebox" musicals were mentioned in the beginning of this post - I don't think we need to worry about "jukebox" musicals taking over Broadway. There were two successful jukebox musicals, so now producers look at them as easy money makers - but I think after this season they will see that the fad is over, and people are looking for more than that. I think the second half of the season might be looking a little brighter than it does right now.

[Spooky]

Posted: 12/21/04 at 4:21pm

Is it similar fare to what's happened in film with studios vs. independent? if you want blockbuster, you go broadway, if you want to think you go off-Broadway

[diva007]

Posted: 12/21/04 at 4:23pm

It is all subjective anyways. Americans have such short attention spans we need musicals.

[dry2olives]

Posted: 12/22/04 at 12:24am

A well-written musical requires an attention span as much as a well-written play.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/22/04 at 9:09am

Morning!

Some very insightful thoughts here. I can only agree and add that "we" as in public craving entertainment, are caught up in sensationalism both on film and tv. This has found its way to the stage, particulaly with many of the musicals being offered.

I also agree that there are few very Braodway actors that are not re-inventing themselves via concerts, workshops, hopefully tv or film spots, tour stints... really anything to keep bread on the table. This is not by choice, but necessity. Because so many shows don't last beyond a year or so, actors need to have a plan B in their pocket. Sadly some of them get out of the business and get into reality, investments, consultants etc. because there are not enough roles to support them.

It's a real Catch 22 circle. Producers, composers are scrambling to create new works and comming up short of valid works = doubts for investors to part with their money = actors move on to other means to support themselves.

Plus theatergoers are hesitant to put out $100 on shows they are not enjoying that much = producers are back to the drawing boards trying to create again and get investors to back them.

I know many will not agree with me but much of your best works are now found Off Broadway and in professional theaters around the country. So, don't envy living in or around NYC....some of the best theater is far from the city. Just my opinion.

[TheGaIsSilent]

Posted: 12/22/04 at 9:24am

PB, I agree partially. A LOT of the best stuff happens Off-Broadway, and in readings. The GREAT thing about NYC is that there are a hundred of these readings a week, happening in spaces all around the city, and performed by the world's best.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/22/04 at 2:55pm

you're right about that...and ultimately that is where thousands come to put their best foot forward and with that there's a hundred readings, workshops and auditions that give it their best shot.
It has to come from some where! NYC IS the place where producers and agencies look seriously at talent and projects. But the numbers that make it vs. don't are staggering. But... that's why some of them end up off Broadway or picked up by investors to try out other than risking everything on Broadway.

A "recently unpopular" composer once told me;"Broadway is a 12 block area that runs to the river. The rest of the world is a stage. Sure, you'd like to have Broadway as a flagship for your project, but I'd rather write for the love of theater everywhere".

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 12/22/04 at 4:25pm

I think the problem is that so many people assume that theater is "Broadway." There are so many incredible productions that don't make it to Broadway because, well, Broadway is not necessarily THE BEST.