When Rock Musicals Don't Rock

[Katurian2]

Posted: 1/29/11 at 11:01pm

In listening to the demos to some rock musicals, such as RENT, Spring Awakening and Next to Normal, I am always astounded at the amount of rock music that's actually in these rock musicals at the start. Partly because they're a demo I'm sure, they all sound raw and much more, well... powerful than their final versions on the cast recordings do. I think the only rock musical that ever translated well to CD was Passing Strange, and that's because it was recorded live. Anyone else notice this? It seems like the orchestrations need to be intensely paired down to what a basic rock group would have to work with.

I almost gasped the 2002 demo version "I Am the One." I finally heard the rock come out in the song! Ditto to "Totally F*cked" sung by Duncan Sheik for Spring Awakening!

And please don't ask where you can hear the demos referenced... they are all over youtube...

Updated On: 1/29/11 at 11:01 PM

[HummingAlong]

Posted: 1/29/11 at 11:10pm

I know what you mean. It seems like it takes a while to harness the power of the song and figure out exactly where it rocks out. I think it takes a while for the story to come together and dictate where these moments will be as well. I also think it depends largely on the actor understanding all of these things and getting them across. (And in early readings and demos, those things are still so unclear, that it's hard to know exactly what you're going for...)

Things rock out when they are driven by true emotion, especially on stage. So when the show is still so early in development, it's just an emotional jumble, and those powerful rock moments seem to be the last things to fall in to place a lot of the time.

[Katurian2]

Posted: 1/29/11 at 11:18pm

But I think that's the primary problem... The rock comes out most in the early stages because they are a jumbled mess. It sounds better before it's fixed and orchestrated to a fine point. Even in the 60 Minutes special on Spider-man, why does what's being played in the workshop session with Bono sound better than anything that's played in the show? It almost gets too tight for any fun.

[HummingAlong]

Posted: 1/29/11 at 11:34pm

yeah, that's true- you have a point, especially with the spidey. i wonder how much of it is due to 1) orchestration (changes in the orchestra/band, location on stage, mixing in the theatre) and 2) theatre mic systems. i hate the houses that use the dampers on the mics. i've attended shows with several older folks who always complain about shows being too loud, but i always feel the exact opposite. i want to sit in my seat and be enveloped in sound. with those dampened mics, shows just seem so flat. (spidey felt like that for me, but there were possible other contributions...)

it's an interesting point that you make about shows getting too tight to rock out. i don't remember what my feelings toward rent were in this regard, but i don't know if i would say that of spring awakening or next to normal. i would definitely agree with you there about spider-man, though! definitely. they were rocking out so hard in that rehearsal clip and the show...eh, not so much. the atmosphere is very different; maybe there was much more excitement during the rehearsal process?

[HummingAlong]

Posted: 1/29/11 at 11:37pm

btw - i totally misread your post at first (obviously) but going back and looking at some of the earlier demos, i can actually see what you're talking about. i had always thought that things fell into place really well, but maybe that chaos does help a bit!

[trentsketch]

Posted: 1/30/11 at 11:06am

It's the main problem of developing a rock musical. At what point does the music stop being rock at all? Does adding an orchestra ruin the effect? Or what about super-trained, clean singers?

Frankly, if you have people that can sing the crap out of the score, it should work even if a thirty piece orchestra (strings and all) was playing along. That said, there is something very appealing about these early workshops.

The best rock score I've heard live (as in, straight up rock music in the context of a story, no polish, no shiny Broadway veneer, no softening for wider appeal) was Caligula: An Ancient Glam Rock Epic at the first NYMF. What worked so well was the strength of the vocalists and loose staging. It was clearly a musical, but the energy and presentation screamed rock. I'm sure if it reaches Broadway as the creators want it to (I doubt it's going to happen just because of subject matter and commercial appeal), it's going to be smoothed out and shined up.

I think there is a major control issue with rock show. I know I've music directed shows where the entire creative team had meetings discussing whether or not we were pushing the "rock" aspect too far to still be appealing theater. It's a stupid doubt if the show is strong enough, but how do you know that a rock show will resonate with the audience if the staging were to be rough enough (bad choice of words, but it's hard to describe; Rent would fail miserably if it were staged with the polish and precision of a Rodgers & Hammerstein show, for example) to really go with the music? You pull back on the reins a little bit (normally while the show is first being developed) to make it more accessible for a wider audience for many years.

Would these kinds of shows fail with edgier music? I don't know. One show could be the next big hit, while another show could fail miserably for taking the same approach.

[ravnquest1]

Posted: 1/30/11 at 11:27am

"i hate the houses that use the dampers on the mics"

what the heck are mic dampers?

[dramarama3]

Posted: 1/30/11 at 6:44pm

I am often underwhelmed by the sound of the Broadway orchestra in general. Maybe it's a big theatre thing?

This is only one example, but the times I have seen wicked (in different cities) the opening bars of "No One Mouns..." are insanely lame. It all feels like the whole sound has been condensed into one single speaker output or something. It got better - but only because my ears probably grew accustomed to listening.
I had similar experiences with Phantom and Ragtime. Tinny.

[HummingAlong]

Posted: 1/30/11 at 6:45pm

ha ravn, that's my horrible way of trying to describe the sound system that sounds dampened - like the full sound is not coming through. like there's cotton over the mic head or something.

[Katurian2]

Posted: 1/31/11 at 1:14pm

I think that sound 'dampening' plays into it a bit- we can see that in Spider-man, but I also think there's something about a fear of simplicity. Duncan Sheik made most the Spring Awakening demo with it seems little more than an acoustic guitar, a harmonica and a little autotune- haha.

Some of the most impacting moments in American Idiot were just Gallagher playing his guitar and singing along. I'm not saying that actors in every rock musical should grab guitars, but to me, a lot of the appeal of rock music lies in being able to make music with just a drum and a guitar ala White Stripes for instance. I think there needs to be more of that- simple rock arrangements that sound like rock music you can hear on the radio.

[BrianS]

Posted: 1/31/11 at 2:54pm

Only through the lens of musical theater would Next to Normal be considered rock. Pop, maybe at best. Listen to Hedwig for a baseline of what a real rock musical sounds like. For me, even Rent (great as that score is) barely feels like a "rock" show.

Queen used extensive orchestrations and instruments and was one of the greatest rock bands of all time. Real rock music has obvious influences in R&B, Jazz, Blues, and Folk.