Why the negative reaction to Spider-Man?

I'm really flabbergasted as to the general attitude on this board regarding Spider-Man. As patrons of the theater, we have every right to share our opinions on the music, book, actors, production elements, etc. And if you don't like Spider-Man for those reasons, I'm not going to criticize. I may even agree with many of your points.
What I don't understand is why the majority has been so negative about this show since the beginning. Here's a group of risk takers, staging an extraordinarily unique production. Nothing similar has ever been attempted on Broadway. Shouldn't we supportive of those who push the envelope and go out on a limb?
Why is everyone trying to be an authority on the business side of Spider-Man? Yes it's unfortunate actors were injured and that shouldn't happen. But who are you to demand the show should close? Why do you care how many times the opening has been delayed (unless you've had a cancelled performance)? Virtually no one here has a financial stake in Spider-Man, so why is everyone so caught up in issues that are none of their business? If you're that upset with everything going on, don't buy a ticket. Don't go. But to act personally offended over all the behind the scenes drama, just makes you look ridiculous.
And for all the "authorities" on Spider-Man, I'm almost astonished no one actually talks about their real business plan. The producers aren't idiots. Michael Cohl is HUGELY successful. He knows it will take years for the show to recoup in New York. If Spider-Man does well, there will be subsequent productions globally and eventually an arena tour. That's where the REAL money is made. If Wicked closed on Broadway tomorrow, it would only be a small dent in the profits of the Wicked parent company. Spider-Man has enormous front end costs, with the hopes or rolling out subsequent productions. Granted, this is a huge gamble. But why does everyone act like Broadway is the only thing that matters? It's a piece of the puzzle.
This may be a bit of a rant... but I can't stand how many uninformed people make ridiculous statements. And I have NO affiliation with Spider-Man. I care about theater and believe in innovation. That's how we progress. And for those that write Spider-Man off as a tourist show (and therefore is not really innovative), Broadway is a COMMERCIAL industry. Art house films don't make the big screen, because the audience isn't large enough. While The Scottsboro Boys may have been a great show (I've never seen it, so I can't comment), productions of this type can rarely thrive on Broadway. Like art house films, they're mainly reserved for a certain demographic of people (not the general public, who are the main patrons of Broadway).

Updated On: 1/16/11 at 07:34 AM

I'm HistoryBoy2, and I approve dramamama's message.

Dramamama, you said it a lot nicer than I would have.

I was just going to tell the OP to get over himself.

marcblack,

Have you actually seen it?

And who would ever want to read a discussion board made up of only positive comments?

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Ya know what leaves a black mark? Coal. And you know what rhymes with coal? Cohl.

So listen, Marc Black, everybody's going to have reactions to things, you can't control them, you can't get in their heads, you're going to have to just breathe and go on with your life. And in the history of HUGELY successful rock promoters, many of them lost their shirts by the end of their careers.

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I like to read both the positive and negative before seeing a show, if possible. It helps me to be aware of what to expect. It sounds crazy, but I actually find I enjoy a show a bit more after reading scathing comments---I go into the theater, expecting nothing and am sometimes pleased I rec'd some enjoyment. The opposite is also true---if I enter a theater, expecting to love it---I'm usually a bit disappointed.

I think most demands for Spidey to close have subsided as the whole injury debacle has died down. Its true that there are a few individuals still expressing those sentiments, but certainly not to such an extreme.

I think other people, like myself, are skeptical that this show is even salvageable at this point. I have admittedly not seen it, though I would love to, to see for myself, but it just seems like delay after delay is just putting off the inevitable flop. I think people who express wish that the show close are doing so more at the angle "cut your losses and move on"

I personally would love to be proven wrong and they use this time successfully to turn it around, because the show had a ton of potential, but I just do not see it happening. The biggest question, with $65+ million invested (I personally think there is NO WAY they are still at this mark) ,when is it time to say enough is enough?

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My problem, not having or intending to see it, is the money being spent. It has to be over 70 million by now.
You could do 7 10 million dollar shows and maybe 2 of them would be amazing, 3 of them great and 2 could flop. And think of all the people employed by all those shows, hell, you could probably build an Off-Broadway Theatre or 2.
If someone wants to use their money that way, so be it.
But it pisses me off.

Yes, I have seen Spider-Man. My personal opinion is that the show was mediocre. I didn't hate it, but it wasn't fantastic either. A little about my background... I am a Broadway producer, who has never been involved with a show that DIDN'T profit. So I'm fairly qualified to offer opinions regarding the business of Broadway.

dramamama611- Yes, most folks aren't demanding that it close. And many discuss Spider-Man based on its creative merits (which is why I prefaced my message saying that is perfectly acceptable). However, MANY individuals discuss behind the scenes issues like they're a producer of Spider-Man, and know what's best. Those are the people I criticize. Do you really believe they're selling a product to an unsuspecting costumer? Michael Cohl comes out before every performance and discusses how the audience is about to see a preview. Beyond this board, I don't see too many members of the general public discussing how they've been "duped" by the producers. We can all argue what makes a show innovative... I believe that the flying and tech elements put Spider-Man in that category. And no, I don't believe any of my points can be turned on supporters of the show. The producers issuing a statement defending their position on delaying an opening (in response to negative sentiment), is a lot different than starting a thread demanding critics review the show immediately. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, one just looks ridiculous by acting personally offended by the show being delayed, stopping a performance etc.

Kalimba- I'd like to share a post of yours from a previous thread which you commented on. "This injury-inducing mess of a show (which I refuse to see) needs to be shut down, and Julie Taymor needs to be run out of town." And I need to get over myself? You have never seen the show, so you're not even equipped to offer opinions on the creative merits of Spider-Man. You're simply basing your views off other's opinions and news articles. Who are you to demand the show closes and Julie Taymor is run out of town? This is why I started my thread. Why does everyone think they're an authority on Spider-Man. The production is running at GREAT numbers, why would it close?? It makes no sense!

leefowler- Yes I have. I was disappointed by the show. No one wants to read a message board with all positive comments. I prefaced my message by saying everyone should be able to offer their opinions, regarding the creative merits of Spider-Man. I don't understand why posters get wrapped up in the behind the scenes issues, that don't affect their lives.

FindingNamo- I'm not sure what your point is by saying that Coal rhymes with Cohl. If my last name is evil, am I automatically a bad person? Also, can you please share the rock promoters you're referring to (that have lost their shirts)? I also invest in other live events (ex. concerts) and have encountered very few of these people, if any. Plus, Michael Cohl is a guy who has not lost his shirt... so I'm not even sure how your point is relevant? You're right I can't control what people think, and I'd never try. I'm just pointing out how many people look ridiculous making these grand statements on Spider-Man, that have nothing to do with the creative merits of the show.

dramarama3- I COMPLETELY agree. This is why I prefaced my post by saying everyone should be allowed to comment on the book, music, acting, tech elements, etc. Here's a quote from my post: "we have every right to share our opinions on the music, book, actors, production elements, etc. And if you don't like Spider-Man for those reasons, I'm not going to criticize. I may even agree with many of your points." I was discussing the people who demand the show should be closed, or act like they're authorities on everything but the creative elements of Spider-Man.

CandiceElyse- Do you read the Broadway grosses? Spider-Man has consistently sold out every performance since its first preview. It was the highest grossing show on Broadway last week (beating out Wicked). I'm not sure why anyone thinks this show is going to flop. The numbers are already proving its success. Even if the reviews are horrible, there's already so much negative sentiment on this show... the entire public is aware. So I'm not sure what losses there are to cut? Why close the highest grossing show on Broadway? And when 65m is on the line, the time to say "enough is enough" is not when the show is having economic success. I'm not trying to criticize you directly... But this is why I started my post. I don't understand why people make statements that go against factual information?

scarywarhol- I agree. Especially since virtually no one here has any business involvement with Spider-Man.

CurtainPullDowner- I guess I understand your frustration, but I really have to agree with scarywarhol. Your argument is a bit irrational. Money is not coming from one pot. Broadway is a commercial industry looking to make money. It's not about how many shows can be put up in a given season, or the diversity of the offerings. It's all about what will profit. And if enough people believed in Spider-Man to fund the production, it has every right to be there. And it's certainly not taking money from other potential Broadway shows.

um... i think the poster is really just wondering why people who haven't seen the show have so much hatred for it or why people think they know what's really going on behind the scenes... that's my guess...

Marcblack, I love you !!! I totally enjoyed reading your posts ... Go you! x

marc and scarywarhol, of course you are right, I know the money doesn't come from one pot and these producers are not interested in building an Off-Bway theatre, but when I see that amount of money being thrown around it makes my brain explode.
And it brings up another question, why are these producers throwing money at this show?
Everyone seems to agree they won't see a penny back for several years, and the idea of touring a show that can't work out tech difficulties for 4 or 5 months and counting in a theatre restructured just for it seems shakey. Any "tour" is going to have to be a scaled down version.
Do the producers want to be associated with Taymor, Bono and the Edge so badly they will pour endless funds?
and marc I know it's just a typo (I make them constantly) but your comment about unsuspecting "costumers" gave me a laugh.

marcblack to answer you question simply is to say...

your show doesn't belong on broadway. it belongs in vegas or in an arena atmosphere. with that said, vegas has already done your show. there really is nothing new that is being proclaimed by the press and hype that you and your press department is presenting to the general public. the tricks in your show have been done before but not on broadway, i and everyone reading this board might agree about that fact, it seems to be common knowledge among the theater world.

my personal comment to you is get over yourself and the hype of the show which has been over played by you and your press department.

with that said I hope the cast is well and safe. it has become ridiculous that you have to resort to an injured cast member, who could have lost his life, to send out "good" press.

I have been a big fan of this production and honestly want it to do well only for the cast members that you put in serious danger every night that are so willing to make this production work. Are they getting a cut of the weekly gross? I'm guessing not. Julie, Bono, Michael, et al, have yet to show themselves on the flying stunts. this show shouldn't be considered "SAFE" until we get the clip of them flying over the Foxwoods Theater.