Wicked/L. Frank Baum Question- Page 2

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:30am

I though I remembered Glinda being the witch of the south, and I found the whole book online.

http://www.underthesun.cc/Classics/Baum/wonderfulwizard/wonderfulwizard1.html

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"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:31am

The Wicked Witch of the West doesn't have green skin in the book. She is described only as having one eye. The country of OZ in the books is divided into four sections, each being associated with a color -- but the people/witches themselves aren't described as being the color of their "state."

Indeed, all the people and witches in the original Denslow/J.Neil Drawings are white.

And Cat -- that Denslow picture is of the Witch of the North. Not Glinda.



Updated On: 6/22/05 at 12:31 AM

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:34am

So I thought, Michael B. Thanks for the update. It makes me wonder, though, if there were all sorts of things from the movie Maguire and the show had to sidestep (the shoes, referring to it as Yellow Brick Road - though Maguire does use that in the title of the prologue), how'd they get away with the green skin?

[BwayStraightBoy]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:36am

In those pictures illustrated by W.W. Denslow all the people have that skin color. And do they actually say she does in the book? All I remember is that she had an umbrella, one eye, and a magic hat to call the monkies with. But it's been a long time, so I don't remember.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:38am

Lots of "wicked witches" in fairy tales were depicted as having green skin. It would be pretty hard to "trade mark" anything about Margaret Hamilton's costume in the film as it was so generic and typical of the folklore witch.

And the yellow brick road is also a function of the book. The only things MGM would have had claim to are the ruby slippers, Miss Gulch (and the farm hands), Professor Marvel, and the horse of a different color -- i.e. -- things invented for the MGM script that weren't already in the now public domain original book.

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:39am

well, im thinkin its probably hard to copyright a (skin) color? its not like they own the color green- its not a specific shade that the movie invented. and aside from 'green goes well with pink' they simply say things like 'different' and 'bright? shes...'

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:44am

Right, I just remember reading things (which, of course, aren't necessarily accurate) that said anything that was an invention of the film wasn't usable in the musical. As for the road, I'd read that the reason they saw "road of yellow brick" in the musical as opposed to "yellow brick road" was because of the film.

This could all be apocryphal, of course.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:51am

Disney bought the rights to several other of the original Baum titles -- MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ, OZMA OF OZ, etc which they partly combined for RETURN TO OZ. These titles are also right on the verge of being in public domain, which means that Maguire could use characters first introduced in them like Jack Pumpkinhead, Tik Tock, The Wheelers etc.

It would seem to me that for this second book, he would almost have to. Because without the running "parallel" to the original book and movie adaption (as WICKED had) there would be very little to tie the book in with Oz without the characters of the book.

[musicnmath]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 12:55am

I'm not at all familiar with the other Oz books. Where does Dorothy fall in the whole series? Is she still not in the public domain? I understand that's why her name (and Toto's) couldn't be used on stage...

this is all quite interesting...

[admanrich]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:00am

I think they have to use the silhouette effect also on stage because originally they wanted to do it live, but I think there were copyright issues or something in showing a replica of the melting scene live. I guess because they really dont need specific costumes by doing the silhouette.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:05am

Are you sure they don't say Dorothy's name in the show, WICKED? She at one point was a character seen on stage (in the worskhops).

Dorothy is not in the second book, THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ, which takes place after THE WIZARD OF OZ, but explains alot of the early history of the land of OZ.

Dorothy returns to Oz in OZMA OF OZ (by way of a chicken coop), DOROTHY IN THE WIZARD IN OZ (by way of earthquake), THE ROAD TO OZ (by way of mysterious path) and finally moves to Oz permenantly (with Aunt Em and Uncle Henry) in EMERALD CITY OF OZ.

The other major character in the books is OZMA, the child princess who ascends the throne in THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ. Maguire mentions her linneage briefly in WICKED. It would be virtually impossible for Maguire to conintue his Oz saga and stay faithful to the original L.Frank Baum OZ (which he largely does in Wicked) without including her.

Others have guessed that the main character in SON OF A WITCH could be Maguires' answer to "Tip" == the boy Princess Ozma is briefly turned into in THE LAND OF OZ.

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:10am

Im pretty sure they never say Dorothy.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:14am

I think the reason they don't show her is to keep the show purely from the Witches' point of view. I don't think there is a copyright on "Dorothy" as a character, though there could be a problem if they depicted her wearing the exact outfit Judy Garland wore in the film.

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:51am

The excerpt in Wicked is titled "Son of a Witch" and it's about Liir...

[Fosse76]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:06pm

He didn't have to worry about copyright too much. "Wicked" is pretty much a satire, therefore the Fair-Use doctrine of the U.S. Copyright Law would protect him. Maguire's book is based soley on the book "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz." Only the musical makes pointed references to the film.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:09pm

It's a totally moot point, because the original property is in public domain, but if it weren't, the tone of the novel of WICKED which is pretty serious would probably not qualify as "satire" at least under the Fair-Use doctrine.

[Urban]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:10pm

<<<"Are you a Munchkin?" asked Dorothy. (To the Witch of the North)
>>>

Okay, c'mon, I cannot be the only one that had a Kristen flash with this line that Kringas pasted here. :)

Michael Bennett - I thought Ozma was 'Tip' for pretty much 95% of "The Marvelous Land of Oz" with the exception of the very end after he/she discovers his/her true identity and changes back. In fact Ozma had been 'Tip' pretty much since babyhood acording to the book IIRC and not just 'briefly'.

"The Emerald City of Oz" is by far my favourite of the latter books though. Somewhat more action-adventurey then alot of the others.

It was also the last book that really set up any real major backstory to the OZ franchise. The remainder 30 odd books after that where really just storys.

While from what I read the book will be about Liir, one cannot help wonder who Maguire will incorporate from the latter books into .

In terms of copywrite, from what I gather, all the books actually written by L. Frank Baum (the first 14) are completely in public domain, thus Jack Pumpkinhead, Tit-tok Man, Nome King et al are useable. In fact only the latter Ruth Plumly Thompson books and a few others after her are still under copywrite to the best of my knowledge.
Updated On: 6/22/05 at 01:10 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:21pm

Urban -- you're correct about Tip, who was enchanted as a baby -- I just meant "briefly" in the context that Ozma is Tip for only one book out of a series of 30!

My personal favorite is THE ROAD TO OZ.

[baddadnpa]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:22pm

I love all 14 of Baum's books, even though he wasn't totally great about continuity. There are continuity errors through all of the books.

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:39pm

don't know if anyone ever posted this here -but I read once that when they were costuming The Wizard of Oz, they brought a rack of ratty old coats for Frank Morgan to try on for his character at the beginning of the piece (what the heck is his name, the soothsayer who tells Dorothy to go back home to her family?) anywhoo - he pulled one off the rack and tried it on and it fit like a glove and looked perfect so they decided to use it in the film. Upon inspection, they found the name L. Frank Baum stitched into the lining - supposedly it had belonged to him at one point. I have no idea if this is true or not - but it's a fun story.

[baddadnpa]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:40pm

Supposedly, it is true. Baum's widow confirmed that the coat was his.

[kec]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:55pm

The "soothsayer" was Professor Marvel aka the Wizard himself.

That is one interesting story. Thanks for sharing that.

I love the Oz books. I've only read the ones by L. Frank Baum. It's hard to say which is my favorite though. But I will say that the Scarecrow has always been my favorite character.

[ProducersFan]

Posted: 6/22/05 at 1:58pm

I know how Elphaba got her name, but is Liir a name invented by Maguire as well? I always think of the LIRR trains for some reason.

~Jessica

Posted: 6/22/05 at 2:06pm

That's a question about ALL of Maguire's names...