Sony and Columbus appear to have put RENT through the anti-gay shredder- Page 5

[Patronus]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 10:30am

I agree with MrMidwest.

However, in art2's case he's been going beyond the logical and intelligent argument that you just made and made it almost farcical.

There was a post in this thread that I am too lazy to look up and credit the poster, but they basically said "art2 isn't going to be happy unless there is full on male/male penetration"

I think that's the problem here. art2 isn't simply advocating that a gay relationship be represented as normal and respectfully as a heterosexual relationship, but is more criticizing the integrity of director of the film and Jonathan Larson based on his perception of what he thinks he is going to see or what he wanted to see.

He seems to want there to be additional physicality between the gay characters than even what the live show gives us and he is going to cry "anti-gay" unless it's there.

I do feel that showing gay couples in film in none stereotype ways is important and should be done, I also think that adding them just for the sake of adding them is gratuitous and unnecessary. In my opinion, that is what I think art2 is advocating if he is doing other than other than just being a troll, which I highly doubt he is.

YWIW??? - HA! It sucks being late to the party, but I must admit that it was a fun read this morning.

Updated On: 11/3/05 at 10:30 AM

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 10:30am

You're probably right, Dream, but to see anyone not seem to be very understanding here is kind of disappointing to me.

[Magdalene]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 10:31am

YAY, Pinguin!!!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 10:48am

Mr. Midwest:

Many of us tried to have a rational discussion with Art2 on the last thread, so it may just be exhaustion from trying before.

In the prior thread, many of us said that Art2 may have an argument in general about the discomfort of showing gay male love on film to a mainstream audience, but the way he was presenting the issue was so extreme it defeated the purpose.

His tone in the last thread was almost like a crusading super-hero who could somehow stop the distribution/production of the film, using phrases like "I won't stand for it" and the like. In effect, he was alienating those who might be otherwise sympathetic to the core issue: how gay love is depicted in hollywood, and whether it is intentionally muted to make straight audiences more comfortable (which in general, I believe it a valid issue to argue - but Rent may not be the best vehicle to argue that point)

I could be wrong, but I believe the porno comment resulted from a series of messages basically where Art demanded that the physical interaction between Collins and Angel be at least as apparent as between Maureen/Joann Roger/Mimi - allthough to many, there was not the same parity in the play (I am not expert on that issue - I just though the Collins/Angel love was more based on pure emotion, and seemed to be the deepest love of the three).
It was an over-the-top statement that was a reaction to the growing frustration on the thread.

I hope that makes some sense.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:01am

I definitely understand where you're coming from Youwantit, I've dealt with art both here and on the imdb boards before.

I feel like sometimes he's infuriating (saying that Angel being in drag is a whitewash is bothersome to me because it makes it sound like people who are drag queens and in gay relationships aren't "really" gay or that they don't deserve to have depictions of their particular situations seen in movies as much as gays who aren't drag queens) and sometimes he sort of incites some interesting discussions.

Updated On: 11/3/05 at 11:01 AM

[Magdalene]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:01am

You make a lot more sense than art2 d2!

[Pinguin]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:19am

"The fact, that even after THAT last thread, people still bother to answer to art2's obsessed non-existent ramblings, is beyond me ! "

-Oh Greek, I can't resist the call to get to post angry penguin pics :0)

Midwest: I totally understand your concern about the male penetration slam, but I'm sure as Patronus suggested that the poster didn't mean it the way that you're thinking of it. art2 completely reduces the issues concerning how homosexuality and homosexual love are depicted in the movie to screen time and kissing, which is ridiculous. I'm sorry if you were offended by the comments (I'm not sure why I'm apologizing since I didn't make the comment, but roll with it...).

So midwest, don't concern yourself anymore and take that valium, or join us for some champagne!

Updated On: 11/3/05 at 11:19 AM

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:23am

Okay. *glug*glug*glug*

[Pinguin]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:42am

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 11:58am

Can you fit a couple of cats in that champagne glass?

It is only 9:00, and we can all already use a drink.

Cheers!

[Magdalene]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 12:25pm

But it IS 5:00 somewhere!!

[YessicaB]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:02pm

Hey- I brought the Margeritas! Drinks for everyone!
It'll help you get through the work day!
By the way thanks for all the good advice, I'll try and find that tea.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:12pm

Well, well, I missed all the fun, although I'm sure Art will be back soon enough.
Ah well.
YWIW, and Pinguin that was fun again, and good to see you made it in Patronus.

Pinguin, that picture with us in the battle last time was fabulous! I have stolen it by the way I love some Hawking!

I also agree with Mr. Midwest, the concerns of portraying love of all people should be addressed and respected. It is because of this that Art is doing such a disservice, by throwing around his "libido liberal" bile, and couching his concerns in a unilateral diatribe on screen time for physical relatations between the men in Rent, we are led to a dismissive attitude toward real and important concerns.

The female-female relationships in Rent are a big deal and will be very new and radical in much of the country, the existence of the male-male couple and the love and tenderness of their relationship will be amazing to see, and Angel's character is a "she," that is the life and identity the character has chosen, to change that the way Art wants is a diservice.

If it is indeed cut to play down the real loving relationships of Angel and Collins, I will be one of the first to protest. The heartfelt lives and loves of gay characters need to be explored and shown on film, although it is not the place of Rent to address all of those concerns. (since Roger and Mimi are the main characters it would be ridiculous to suggest, as Art does, that it is a matter of "lingering screen time on the relationship.")

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:20pm

Man, is that Penguin smart!

[Marquise]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:25pm

Dear art2,


PUT A CORK IN THAT WHINE, WILL YA*?!!?!!?!!




*All Materials Copyright - Karen Walker - Walker, Inc.
Updated On: 11/3/05 at 01:25 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:28pm

Marquise -

How you doing? Gas lines still killing you?

I hear things are still pretty terrible in parts of Florida.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:31pm

I'm going to buy some wine in just a bit here, I think a nice Reisling or three for me, and maybe a Pinot for my guests.
mmmm.... wine.

[Marquise]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:40pm

Hey YouWantItWhen???? thanx for asking! I'm fine. No gas concerns in my neck of the woods. I filled up my tank the friday before the 'cane and i still had slightly over 1/2 a tank this past Monday. I re-filled my car again, so I'm straight as far as gas, electricity and food goes.

Some others are not fairing as well. My friend Belkis still doesn't have power or hot water and is resorting to going to the gym for a hot shower.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:47pm

I read that some of the elderly in high-rises are still without power, and there are real concerns that some pay pass away before they are able to get out of their units. They cannot get down all of the stairs necessary to get out and get food and water. I really hope that it an overstatement of the situation. But knowing the fools who have been running FEMA, probably not.

It seems like no one is covering much of this mess in Florida. I guess it must be Hurricane Fatigue.

Glad you are doing well.

[Patronus]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 1:49pm

Glad to hear you are doing well, Marquise. Hang in there!

Sp78, articulate as always!

All this wine and champagne flying around is fine, but I personally don't drink. Would you mind making me a Shirley Temple?
Updated On: 11/3/05 at 01:49 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 2:03pm

I have some sparkling apple cider if you want it Patronus?

I will swap it for your glass of wine!

I have a nice bottle of cab open if anyone wants a glass.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 2:12pm

It's always good to hear from you sp78! Great response, as usual :0)

Let's drink a toast to...

3P's!!! + honorary member YWIW????!!!!!!!

[art2]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 5:24pm

Alot of you seem to have permanently-affixed pro-RENT blinkers on. I can understand this. However, I believe it is important to point out facts. Facts don't know fashion and they don't know preferences. Facts stand alone.

The facts are the male-male love was diminished in the poster and the trailers. And now it appears to be the case for the movie.

[Marquise]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 5:32pm

*yawn*

so....how's everyone tonight?
anyone have any special plans...?

[YessicaB]

Posted: 11/3/05 at 5:36pm

Nah, actually I had a long day at work and am now stuck at home (cause I don't have a car) and am probably gonna die of boredom unless one of my friends has some pity with me and will get me outta here.
What about you?