Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)
Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#1
Posted: 11/6/08 at 11:13am
As I said yesterday to all those people on here that were for some reason blaming blacks for the failure of a white-led-ban on gay marriage these numbers are suspicious.
First of all I don't believe out of the 224 people polled by CNN there weren't any "undecided." Here on this "Suvery USA" (not sure how reliable it is either) we have the "undecided." I think undecided is important because this ban as far as I know was confusing because of wording and history. People were not sure if they were voting for or against gay marriage even if they were for it.
Look at the percentages if you add up the "undecideds" with the "yes" votes it's almost a wash, white: 54% black: 62% Latino: 59% Asian: 52%.
Blacks and Hispanics apparently led the charge but not by much. Now while I don't doubt either group would have voted against gay marriage, I don't believe we have ENOUGH INFORMATION to draw any real conclusions.
This issue REALLY upset me because this is really a WHITE issue. White people drafted this legislation and white people saw fit to put it on this ballot. It is wrong in so many ways and was clearly used as a wedge issue for religious and uneducated voters.
* adjusted were to weren't
Results of SurveyUSA Election Poll
Updated On: 11/6/08 at 11:13 AM
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#2
Posted: 11/6/08 at 11:16amAnd, again, the whitest people in the world financed it.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#2
Posted: 11/6/08 at 11:37am
"First of all I don't believe out of the 224 people polled by CNN there weren't any "undecided.""
Just because you don't belive, it doesn't make it fact.
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#3
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:05pmThanks for posting this, mejust. I've been forwarding it to people.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#4
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:10pm
"Just because you don't belive, it doesn't make it fact. "
I'm not saying what I'm saying are facts. I'm telling you there is something wrong with those CNN numbers which are being presented at "fact."
I just heard Brian Leher quote that poll and said 70% of blacks voted yes for this ban. Meanwhile we have ANOTHER source that says otherwise. Who is right and why is CNN leaving out details?
I was seriously offended yesterday by all of this and it pains me to hear these words repeated today in the media. This entire initiative was brought on by white people and the scapegoat is blacks and Latinos. It's an issue that should not even be on the ballot, but here have a VERY divisive issue and the first thing they do is pick on a minority as the reason it passed.
Updated On: 11/6/08 at 12:10 PM
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/3/05
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#5
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:15pmI do think the minority vote is what pushed it over the top. But I don't blame the minorities - I blame the churches who manipulated them.
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#6
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:18pmIncluding - as pointed out by our beloved Calvin - the freakin' Mormons, who have always been such a staunch defender of marriage being for one woman and one man.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#7
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:30pm
"I do think the minority vote is what pushed it over the top. But I don't blame the minorities - I blame the churches who manipulated them. "
Well don't think, look at the polls. A guy on NPR said the black vote was 8%, CNN said 10% and this poll says 6%. In all of those cases it's statistically impossible for that number (around 4%) which would be a total of 2% to have ANY real impact. 52.5 percent, voted in favor of Prop. 8 and 47.5 percent, voted against it.
I'm talking specifically about blacks here, the Latino and Asian vote come clearly into play because they are much larger groups. But it was blacks that have gotten any press on this issue the last two days, and they are such a small population in CA. I understand we can look at their higher percentage of "yes" votes but if we are going to get that granular I want to know their educational and religious backgrounds.
The white right went after these people and the left white is blaming them.
Mark DiCamillo, director of the Field Poll, "That's not a very big sample upon which to make broad conclusions or estimates," he said. With big margins of error, he said "you're just throwing darts at
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#7
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:30pm
Updated On: 11/6/08 at 12:30 PM
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#7
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:33pm
That survey is from 10/17/08, before the Mormons started running their manipulative advertising.
Exit polls are taken as people exit the polls.
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#8
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:36pm
Now blame is being put on Bay Area gays and lesbians.
With so much at stake, the voter turnout for the city was only 50%. It should have been 90% or more.
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#9
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:36pm
Since we have to balkanize the Prop 8 supporters, how much of a role did the virulently antigay groups in northern California -- the Latvians and such -- play in it? The Watchmen or whatever they call themselves?
I haven't heard much about them, but I'm sure they were a force.
Updated On: 11/6/08 at 12:36 PM
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#10
Posted: 11/6/08 at 12:40pm
"Now blame is being put on Bay Area gays and lesbians.
With so much at stake, the voter turnout for the city was only 50%. It should have been 90% or more. "
Maybe still reeling about the one named Clinton?
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#11
Posted: 11/6/08 at 1:02pm
Here's a thoughtful analysis from today's San Jose Mercury News:
Black and Latino voters critical to same-sex marriage ban's success
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/3/05
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#12
Posted: 11/6/08 at 1:27pm
When push comes to shove, the people I 'blame' are those who voted yes - no matter who or what they are. Ultimately, I still think it boils down to churches being allowed to politicize , and they should pay the price by having their tax exemption revoked.
Does there seem to be a slightly disproportionate number of minority groups subject to that type of dogma? Historically, yes - long, long before this particular issue.
I see no point in demonizing any particular group. I'd rather go after the real culprit, which is church involvement in civic affairs.
The tax exemption needs to be used as a tool - or weapon, if you will. There are documented cases of blatantly crossing the line with this issue and abortion, and yet, nothing is done about it. Why not?
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#13
Posted: 11/6/08 at 2:02pm
"Here's a thoughtful analysis from today's San Jose Mercury News: "
What's thoughtful about this? It's not an analysis. Firstly blacks may have showed up in "record" numbers in California but there were not that many to begin with and according to the same CNN poll black males don't even register.
What this article fails to make perfectly clear is that blacks had no impact either way with this measure because there is no way mathematically for their small percentage to impact that 52/47 divide.
Blacks were not critical to this vote at all if you break down the numbers. Latinos are. It's just so racist. Yes it's important to question the "70%" but to suggest they are responsible for this WHITE issue is entirely racist.
Updated On: 11/6/08 at 02:02 PM
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#14
Posted: 11/6/08 at 2:08pmI just wrote to the writers of that story. I'm piss@d.
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/3/05
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#15
Posted: 11/6/08 at 2:12pm
mejust - when I said 'minority', you kept talking about how Blacks were being demonized - but then harp on the Hispanic vote. Aren't they considered minority by you?
You're taking this WAY too personally - especially when you yourself said above it was important to question the 70% figure. That's all anyone is trying to do is understand, and they're looking at all the angles. That's important to know how to move forward.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#16
Posted: 11/6/08 at 2:22pm
Soy Latino and I'm not harping on the Latino vote. The Latino vote in California is MUCH bigger than the black vote but it's still a minority there, the whites are almost 60% of the populace. The Latino vote could be "blamed" for this but it's not. The black vote is.
The WHOLE reason I am taking it too personally is because I'm deeply offended. This may be the first time that CA black community ever showed up to vote. They come out, vote and this is what they get? Blamed by the media and gay people for a proposition shoved down their throats by white people. These articles and this story is running everywhere but I see no critical breakdown.
It's just disgusting.
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#17
Posted: 11/6/08 at 2:27pm
You're just addicted to negativity and looking for something to be angry and outraged by.
You should be experiencing the Obama victory as a historic milestone and the defeat in California as a disturbing but temporary setback in a long and winding struggle for civil rights.
But instead you're sulking around these threads like Malvolio at the end of Twelfth Night. It's downright pathological.
Stop being bitter and celebrate NOW.
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#18
Posted: 11/6/08 at 2:29pm
When you fill out your ballot it's YOUR vote.
It's not the evil manipulator's vote who poured millions of dollars into an ad campaign from another state.
It's not your sister's vote, or your husband's. It's not your church's vote, or your political party's. Or your ancestor's or your race's.
They can all influence you heavily on your decision, but when you go into a voting booth, or fill out your ballot at home and mail it in, you are not a victim. You are not being forced to make a predetermined choice. You are an individual voter making YOUR choice.
You can and must take full responsibility for your vote.
We can look at why certain groups (age or race) might be swaying very obviously a certain direction, based on a "hate campaign" that they fully agreed with and supported, and we can try to educate them and change their minds for the future.
But it's THEIR minds we're talking about.
Unless you think so little of your age group or race group to think that they have no minds of their own and only do what other rich people in a different state tell them to do. I would find that FAR more insulting of an answer and viewpoint than to think that maybe they made an unfair, bigoted, unwise decision when they voted, and try to reach out to them to change their minds in the future.
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#19
Posted: 11/6/08 at 4:11pmIt's not fair to blame one racial group for Prop 8 passing, but I will say that the black community is overwhelming anti-gay and usually proud of that fact too. They also, obviously, are against bigotry only if it's directed at them.
re: Another survey about Prop 8 voters (compare to CNN)#20
Posted: 11/6/08 at 7:41pm
I know there are a ton of emotions going around, but we have got to stop the blame game. It's not going to help anyone.
With that I offer a quote by Mildred Loving, the black coplaintiff of the historical Supreme Court ruling that ended interracial marriage bans. She died May 2, 2008.
"Surrounded as I am now by wonderful children and grandchildren, not a day goes by that I don't think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the "wrong kind of person" for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people's religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people's civil rights.
I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard's and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That's what Loving, and loving, are all about."
Please click the link to read their story.
Loving v Virginia
Videos
