#27
Posted: 10/19/04 at 11:19am
I wonder if this is what it felt like right before the FIRST civil war started?
#28
Posted: 10/19/04 at 11:57am
Rodney's right.
As a former Manhattanite, where politics were predictable, it's been eye-opening to move to the Jersey burbs. Here, in the past week signs have sprouted up on many lawns. It's a visible and visceral reminder of the Great Divide when you see Bush/Cheney next to Kerry/Edwards, a mere bit of asphalt or green turf separating the dualing ideologies.
And that's just it -- it's not just one man vs. another, or even one party vs. the other. It's truly polarized visions. There are to be sure, Republicans who secretly loathe Bush but fear Kerry, and their are Dems who find Kerry weaker than desired but who cannot fathom another four years of Bush and would vote for a dog catcher against him. But many streets, neighborhoods and towns are deeply divided about what point of view represents a safe, noble, "values-based" future. To some, pro-life means stopping unnecessary (no goal) bloodsed in in Iraq; to others, it means seeing every conception as a viable baby. The value of Life ... is in the eye of the beholder as never before. That divide won't be healed quickly, no matter who's elected.
As a former Manhattanite, where politics were predictable, it's been eye-opening to move to the Jersey burbs. Here, in the past week signs have sprouted up on many lawns. It's a visible and visceral reminder of the Great Divide when you see Bush/Cheney next to Kerry/Edwards, a mere bit of asphalt or green turf separating the dualing ideologies.
And that's just it -- it's not just one man vs. another, or even one party vs. the other. It's truly polarized visions. There are to be sure, Republicans who secretly loathe Bush but fear Kerry, and their are Dems who find Kerry weaker than desired but who cannot fathom another four years of Bush and would vote for a dog catcher against him. But many streets, neighborhoods and towns are deeply divided about what point of view represents a safe, noble, "values-based" future. To some, pro-life means stopping unnecessary (no goal) bloodsed in in Iraq; to others, it means seeing every conception as a viable baby. The value of Life ... is in the eye of the beholder as never before. That divide won't be healed quickly, no matter who's elected.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
#29
Posted: 10/19/04 at 12:11pm
what scares me is that there will ALWAYS be this division as long as the system stays the same.
I am reminded (not agreeing with, just reminded) of Robert Heinlein's words in Starship Troopers "This year we discussed the failure of Democracy and how the social scientists brought us to the verge of chaos. We talked about the Veterans, how they took control.."
I am reminded (not agreeing with, just reminded) of Robert Heinlein's words in Starship Troopers "This year we discussed the failure of Democracy and how the social scientists brought us to the verge of chaos. We talked about the Veterans, how they took control.."
#30
Posted: 10/19/04 at 12:26pm
What? No one remembers a horribly offensive poster named 'Cutie Pie' who used to rile people up here??? Come ON people, take your Ginko Biloba!
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#31
Posted: 10/19/04 at 12:27pm
Rodney - as a former military member, and someone that is intimately aware of that mentality, that is the most frightening thing I've ever heard.
#32
Posted: 10/19/04 at 12:28pm
Like I said, I was not agreeing with it, just reminded of it.
#33
Posted: 10/19/04 at 2:14pm
Ah, Namo. I was wondering when mommy would let you come out to play.
#34
Posted: 10/19/04 at 2:43pm
You're baiting me! Rodney's baiting me and trying to get me banned! If this type of sexual harassment is allowed to continue I just don't know what I shall do! Boo hoo hoo.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#35
Posted: 10/19/04 at 3:19pm
Reason number 152 why Jon Stewart rocks- he was pointing out exactly that kind of artificial bipolarization when he went on Crossfire. That, and he made fun of Carlson's bow tie.
#36
Posted: 10/19/04 at 3:22pm
hahahahahahahahahahaha Namo.
Is your mom able to walk this morning or is she still recovering from the weekend?
Is your mom able to walk this morning or is she still recovering from the weekend?
#37
Posted: 10/19/04 at 3:28pm
Plum, Eric"RodneyK"MDB is the Tucker Carlson of this board. He seems to not really get that he has lost, and makes himself look more foolish every time he opens his mouth.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#39
Posted: 10/19/04 at 3:32pm
That's all you've got? Sure didn't take long for your pathetic little well to run dry.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#40
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:22pm
riiiiiiight. So...back on topic.
It's a shame we HAVE to vote for one of these pathetic excuses for candidates. Let me just say that I think Bush is gonna win just because Kerry seems to be inable to convince the swing voters that he's the new go-to guy. He just doesn't seem trustworthy to them. Ahem, that includes me. I'm one of those swing voters. Bush will win. Democrats will cry foul (what else is ****ing new?). And the country will become more polarized in its idealogies because we can't get a viable third party into the running!!!! Democracy my ass.
It's a shame we HAVE to vote for one of these pathetic excuses for candidates. Let me just say that I think Bush is gonna win just because Kerry seems to be inable to convince the swing voters that he's the new go-to guy. He just doesn't seem trustworthy to them. Ahem, that includes me. I'm one of those swing voters. Bush will win. Democrats will cry foul (what else is ****ing new?). And the country will become more polarized in its idealogies because we can't get a viable third party into the running!!!! Democracy my ass.
Word. Word, indeed.
#42
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:25pm
Oh please. I'm sick of people posing as swing voters and undecideds just to get some attention. BB, are you seriously suggeswting that there wasn't a major foul in the way Bush was handed the office by a partisan, activist Supreme Court?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#43
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:25pm
I don't think getting a third party in there is the problem. It never really was before, though we did make the Whig-Republican switch.
#44
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:30pm
The reason why I believe it to be a problem now is because the parties are becoming more and more alike every year. Sorry to say it, but it's true. The UK has more of a true working democracy than we have. And, in my opinion, a choice is not a choice if it's an either/or dilemma. Gimme my damn options!!! And no, I'm not "posing" as a swing voter. Neither me nor my wife want to vote for either of these twits. I am registered with the libertarian party, and registered independent in New York. Why is everyone so quick to cast doubt upon every post on this site?
Word. Word, indeed.
#45
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:30pm
"I'm sick of people posing as swing voters and undecideds just to get some attention"
I can't belive it..... Namo said something I agree with!
I can't belive it..... Namo said something I agree with!
#46
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:33pm
You don't even know who I am!!!! How can you possible assert that I'm "posing"?
EDIT: Is it because I'm posting on an overwhelmingly Democratic board? Or just because I think that Bush will win the votes? I wasn't saying I LIKED that fact, it's just a prediction.
EDIT: Is it because I'm posting on an overwhelmingly Democratic board? Or just because I think that Bush will win the votes? I wasn't saying I LIKED that fact, it's just a prediction.
Word. Word, indeed.
Updated On: 10/19/04 at 04:33 PM
#48
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:36pm
Bull****, B.B. Wolf. The parties become more alike the higher up in government you go because they serve larger (and therefore more homogeneous) constituencies. But they never just become each other. I think it's that mindset that's hurting us as much as anything else.
I look at countries with a lot of party choices (France, Israel) and I see systems that, in my opinion, don't work nearly as well as the American one. And in the end, someone towards the middle will always win at a high national level.
Even in a many-party systen, uou can't win the Presidency from the far right or left unless everyone else splits the vote so much you manage to sneak in there. Which is what almost happened to France before they panicked, realized what they'd almost done, and re-elected Chirac, who they probably didn't want that much in the first place. Perfect system.
I look at countries with a lot of party choices (France, Israel) and I see systems that, in my opinion, don't work nearly as well as the American one. And in the end, someone towards the middle will always win at a high national level.
Even in a many-party systen, uou can't win the Presidency from the far right or left unless everyone else splits the vote so much you manage to sneak in there. Which is what almost happened to France before they panicked, realized what they'd almost done, and re-elected Chirac, who they probably didn't want that much in the first place. Perfect system.
#49
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:45pm
I'm just gonna skip the logical and truthful argument and skip right to front: let me guess, you're a Democrat and the possibility of your party being remotely relatable to the Republican party is such a HORRID thought. Get over it. Both parties are controlled by big business constituencies. And the REAL truth is that both parties actively suppress third parties because they don't want to lose their monopolies on the election. By the way, you say you don't think the American people want more options than the ones they are given: this year, among newly registered voters, 70 PERCENT of them registered as Independent. Facts are facts. Speculation is speculation.
Word. Word, indeed.
#50
Posted: 10/19/04 at 4:52pm
Democrats are only opposed to thrid parties because Nader is a main reason Bush won last time.
It's a case of not wanting to take their own medicine. How quickly we forget that is was that little weasel Ross Perot who gave us eight year of Bill Clinton.
It's a case of not wanting to take their own medicine. How quickly we forget that is was that little weasel Ross Perot who gave us eight year of Bill Clinton.
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