Dealing w/public homophobia? (long)

[thetinymagic2]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 7:37pm

I've searched the various threads on this subject, but have a particular QUESTION:
If you were sitting with aquaintances in an outside cafe, people you know...some you like better than others, all over age 55, a decent, educated bunch, some actors, and ONE person always brings up the subject somehow re: "The gay agenda", and then proceeds to yell:
I hate faggots! as some weird attention getting device. Everyone just sits there, trying to be "polite"? and don't defend me when I stand up and tell this person not to use that language in front of me; your'e being rude, etc., and he (75 y.o. homophobe) proceeds to yell even louder "I hate faggots and their faggot agenda". I ask him to be quiet, not to use that language, respect my sensitivities, and JUST STOP. Of course, his answer is"If you don't like it, leave", which is what I did, not before exclaiming that he probably had a problem w/his own "masculinity". I am tired of finding out (lately), that ALOT of people I work with and/or are aquainted with on a social level, are secretly big time homophobes/xenophobes. I find it disgusting, I have had to tell off a few people lately, and ditched former "friends". Maybe I'm being overly dramatic, I don't know, but I grew up in the 60s and 70s, do not HATE any person, but I am finding it increasingly difficult to ignore this stuff and walk away. I am Jewish myself, and always feel that if one does not stand up to discriminatory remarks in public venues, then you become part of the problem yourself? I always try to POLITELY but firmly address others' ignorant comments, but.....on occaasion I'm pushed into a corner of shouting back...
Thoughts??
BTW, not that it matters, I am a straight middle aged female and have friends of every creed and religion.


Updated On: 5/11/08 at
Updated On: 5/11/08 at 07:37 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 7:43pm

Just laugh at them in their face. There's nothing you can say to them. But laughing in their faces will piss them off. I don't know.

[roquat]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 7:50pm

I may be in the minority on this, but I'm not in favor of escalating these kinds of arguments. People who do such things in public have put themselves outside the possibility of being educated--they are (as you say) looking for attention, so I say don't give it to them! Stare at them calmly for a moment as if they had two heads, then turn away and start talking to someone else about something else. If the person keeps going (to the point where civilized conversation would be drowned out) just gaze at them, unperturbed, until they scream themselves out, then change the subject. Rise above it. Show that you are better than them.

[nmartin]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 7:52pm

Welcome to the real world of big girls.

[thetinymagic2]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 8:08pm

Oh Yes, I know, NMartin, yet I get the feeling that in 2008 there is an increasingly palpable public hate agenda going on. I hear it just walking down the street everyday. Total insensitivity to one's fellow man. It used to be that people shut up about their personal prejudices, now there's not even SHAME. Okay, I'm 100 years old in my viewpoint, right? I'll stick with it, though.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 8:09pm

I have figured out that you can't change anyone who is over the age of 50. Just my experiences. Anyone under 50 - you can make them "see the light" or at least be more open-minded regarding social, political, and even religious issues. But over 50? Forget it.

[nmartin]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 8:14pm

I didn't mean my comment to be harsh. I suppose it's my own bitterness. Everything you posted is accurate.

[thetinymagic2]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 8:15pm

Well, that might be true, CAPN, however, I'm over 50 and am NOT like that, and my Mom and Dad were not like that. Actually I hear ALOT of homophobia, xenophobia from young folks on the street, at work, too. No one is immune to ignorance. Maybe alot of older people get set in their ways, and no one ever challenged their viewpoints.... I think that the pursuit of educating oneself until the day you die makes you a happier and more fullfilled person.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 8:23pm

I agree, but it's just my experiences in dealing with people 50+. Of course everyone isn't like that.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 8:26pm

Familiarize yourself with the hate crime legislature; when someone does this-inform them of the laws in your area they are breaking. This worked for me when I was called Faggot over and over by a man on the bus and the driver was trying to pull "freedom of speech" when I asked him to called to police.

Or, ignore it. That's probably the best for you and your sanity. I hear it all the time. I was sitting in my apartment, enjoying my evening recently and some jerk ran down the street with faggot this and faggot that. Nothing I could do that wouldn't endager my safety. A lot of time it is talk but you never know.

Or, if I'm in a sassy mood I'll fight back. Take a bible with you, highlight all the sections about treating others with kindness and respect. Or if I'm not in the mood I'll turn the mirror on them. Make it about their behavior and how they present themselves. Make it an issue of them having no class or respect. Tell them 1 in 10 people are gay and its not going away. Make them aware of the countless studies saying it is genetic.

On one side it is safer to be quiet and on the other we're not going to get anywhere by shutting up.

[Lavieboheme2]

Posted: 5/11/08 at 9:46pm

wow.... does the gay-hater have mental problems? why would a sane person scream stuff like that in public? thats insane!!!! if youre ever uncomfortable change the subject and if that doesnt work start screaming AT THEM and if all fails leave

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 10:00am

I find that becoming a pack leader is about a calm, assertive state of mind coupled with a quick sharp correction to the neck (similar to what a mother dog would do in nature). In addition, for many of these dogs (homophobes), it is a lack of adequate exercise that is the root of the problem. Most cases can be rehabilitated with time and dedication, and we owe it to our dogs (homophobes) to try.

[tazber]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 10:04am

Violence. Pull a knife and cut the bitch.
Or, if he's over 50 just just let him off the hook since people over 50, according to Capn, aren't capable of understanding anything new.

Updated On: 5/12/08 at 10:04 AM

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 10:34am

He's old.

He'll be dead soon, and the world will be better off.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 10:41am

no, no, no.....you MUST comment when people pull that crap.
You must let them know it's not acceptable to hate.
As loud as they hate, you must let them know it it NOT ok.

If no one reacts, they have won.

Steve, my sister, and I were in Lahaina, Maui a year ago March....Lahaina is a very gay-friendly town. (Hell, Hawaii in general is acception of people)
And we were looking at a sidewalk jewelry display, and there is a family with two little girls, and I overhear the father saying "only queers would like this stuff"......and I told him off saying 'I'm a queer and don't like it'....I could tell the guys wife was embarrassed (yet said nothing)....but those two little girls chimed in with something like if I didn't like what I was hearing, too bad.
And no, they will not change, but....if you do not stand up and respond to this crap, you have no right to ever complain about it.

What is that old quote....they came for the Jews, and no one complained, they came for the Catholics, etc....they came for me, and no one was left.

You MUST, MUST, MUST let people know when they pull this crap that it is wrong, unacceptable, and that at least you will not tolerate it.

Updated On: 5/12/08 at 10:41 AM

[Patronus]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 10:42am

Or, if he's over 50 just just let him off the hook since people over 50 apparently aren't capable of understanding anything new.

Yeah, we learn something knew around here every day, don't we?

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 10:45am

Why would you have dinner with someone who you said you KNEW was hateful and a homophobe?

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 12:13pm

Homophobes are awful cooks. It's all BBQ and beer.

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 12:14pm

Julia Child is the exception that proves the rule, yes?

eta: make that WAS the exception... Updated On: 5/12/08 at 12:14 PM

[roquat]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 3:35pm

Elphaba, I disagree. Shouting back and lecturing people is not always the best way to greet this kind of behavior. I agree that the situation you describe, in which homophobes didn't know they were being overheard, was best served by calling their attention to what they'd said and embarrassing them--I'm sure they'll think twice before doing that again. However, deliberate provocation--bigots using hate speech openly, in public, against people whom they KNOW are gay--is done in the hope of a response. If you sink to their level and scream back, they've won. If you deny them the fight they want, it will drive them nuts--and you'll have proven yourself superior to them in front of whomever has witnessed the incident. I call that winning.

[lildogs]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 3:44pm

"He's old, but he'll die. So I like it." -Art patron on Mr. Burns' portrait

"Look Homer, call this an unfair generalization if you must, but old people are no good at everything."-Moe on Mr. Burns

I just laugh out loud at these people these days--like the guy who thinks I'm cruising him on the subway and moves down the car to avoid my gaze...big old scary 5'6", 130 lb ME. I'm SOOOO threatening.

You have to laugh--I figure that some of my str8 guy friends-and there are alot of them--are the butchest, reddest-necked ghetto types you'll ever hope not to meet and none of them would act like that in public OR private.

We'd be watching TV and they'd say something like "A-Rod is a fag....we don't mean you, smish." (Smish being my nickname) And it would tickle me to think they were that concerned about my feelings.

As we've said here before, the only person who would call a stranger a faggot/knob-gobbler/pickle chugger is another faggot/knob-gobbler/pickle chugger.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 4:10pm

we'll agree to disagree roquat. Being silent in the face of bigotry and hate never achieves anything but more bigotry and hate.
And I never said yell at them, I said call them on it. It is unacceptable behavior, and I was raised to not let people get away with crap like that.

Silence=Death

[Patronus]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 4:18pm

Silence=Death

Except when running your mouth gets you killed. Then Speaking Out=Death.

I think it's important to not label either being silent or speaking out as the "absolute" way to handle things like this.

There is a time and a place for everything and if you aren't able to quickly assess the situation to make an informed judgment call on whether or that specific scenario would be safe to speak out against then it might just be best for some people to stay quiet.

You and I are the type that we would speak out, but that isn't necessarily the right course of action for every person in every scenario.

[roquat]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 4:24pm

We will indeed agree to disagree, but I bristle at the notion that silence is the same as cowardice (or "death", for that matter). It can, when used effectively, be another tactic. NOT backing down, just shaming the offender. You obviously haven't learned the power of a Beatrice Arthur-style killer glare. She didn't need words. And do you think anyone ever messed with her? Would you?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/12/08 at 4:33pm

It's very difficult for me to answer the question because I simply am never in that situation. I don't have any acquaintances, young or old, who bring up the "gay agenda" or say anything negative about homosexuality. On the rare occaision I would be at a social function and some cocky frat boy would make a homophobic comment (not directed at me), three or four of my friends (all heterosexual) would immediately ask him to shut up and/or threaten to kick his ass. I guess I'm just lucky, but I also make a conscious effort not to socialize with those types.

I have figured out that you can't change anyone who is over the age of 50. Just my experiences. Anyone under 50 - you can make them "see the light" or at least be more open-minded regarding social, political, and even religious issues. But over 50? Forget it.

Nice generalization there. My experience has been quite different so I would discourage anyone from taking that rather pessimistic and discriminatory viewpoint.

NOT backing down, just shaming the offender.

LOL You're assuming the offender can be shamed. And remember, Bea Arthur's glare often was followed by audience laughter. Glares are often passive looks of disapproval visible to very few. I say, be as loud as the offender so you can reach the same audience.

Updated On: 5/12/08 at 04:33 PM