ENOUGH with the "War on Christmas" nonsense

[Calvin]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:11pm

It always amuses me how a group that's part of another group that comprises 90 percent or more of the population can feel so oppressed all the time, but the right-wing Christians are really outdoing themselves this year.

Who the hell cares if the city of Boston calls it a holiday tree or a Christmas tree? Is this really the most offensive thing that you've ever encountered? It's a fir tree with lights and balls on it. Look at it and get whatever interpretation you want to get out of it.

There's so much they could be concentrating on this holiday season -- families stuck in FEMA trailers in Louisiana come to mind -- but their chief concern seems to be whether the minimum-wage-earning high school student checking out the size 52 Wranglers for hubby at JC Penney says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" as the transaction is completed. Honey, just be happy that clerk doesn't say what he/she probably really wants to say to you.

It just shows how childish these people are. They expect every person and corporation to cater to them precisely the way the want.

Did Mary hang tinsel on a tree? Did Melchior bring his frankincense wrapped in colorful paper decorated with gingerbread men? Was Herod just mad because he didn't get one of those $50 DVD players on Black Friday? All these Christmas traditions were mined from a variety of cultures, and now those who celebrate them are mad when others try to be as multicultural as possible during the holidays.

Anyone who vocalizes any so-called act of oppression after seeing a generic "Seasons Greetings" banner should be forced to Clockwork Orange-style viewings of every Hallmark Hall of Fame Christmas movie ever made while listening to treacly, preachy songs like "Do they know it's Christmas" and "Christmas shoes." Or shot. Whichever.

Happy holidays, all.

Updated On: 11/27/05 at 12:11 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:15pm

Yeah, this issue PISSES me off. There are (at least?) FOUR major holidays this time of year. Those who act like Christmas is the only one are ***holes.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:18pm

Oh, remind Christians they stole the tree from the druids anyway. It's a WINTER SOLSTICE Tree if you want to get that specific, right down to the holly on the door.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:26pm

It just shows how childish these people are. They expect every person and corporation to cater to them precisely the way the want.

Isn't that the same with every group?

The Jews want things their way.
The Christians want things their way.
The Blacks want things their way.
The Hispanics want things their way.
The Native Americans want things their way.
The Asians want things their way.
The Gays want things their way.
The Straights want things their way.
The Rentheads want things their way.

Why can't everyone simply leave December alone, and allow everyone to call their festive time in December whatever they want, and to celebrate it without criticism or comment from others?

Why can't everyone simply set aside the month and practice good-will toward men, whatever their race, color, creed, sex or sexual pursuation?

Just my two cents.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:28pm

Coming from one of those pagan misfits who actually celebrates something else this time of year, no attack on that goddamn holiday is ever going to succeed. From my point of view, I'm being ****ing suffocated by that holiday 24-7 whenever I'm in the U.S.

Christmas carols playing in every store, decorations everywhere (though I do like those), TV specials, movies, ads urging you to buy SPECIAL CHRIST- UH, HOLIDAY GIFTS FOR EVERYONE!!1!

Urgh. All those idiots who think they're under siege can just shut up and kiss my ass. Or start attacking the stores that are turning their holiday into a vast excuse for commerce rather than a religious time.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:28pm

Listening to Christmas Shoes just once would be enough punishment for most people.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:30pm

Jose--I have to quibble with your post. I think there are people who want it their way, but I think most people want what allows everyone to have it their way.

Saying Happy Holidays allows everyone to feel included. Saying Merry Christmas to a Jew or Muslim does not include them, except possibly in the generic, secular version of Christmas as an American holiday.

Updated On: 11/27/05 at 12:30 PM

[Plum]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:34pm

No, I'm not willing to accept that anything that starts with the word "Christ" is "generic" and "secular." BS. I don't really care if someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas"- I've become an expert at the gentle "I'm a Jew" correction- it's just the all-encompassing posession of the country by that holiday that drives me up the frickin' wall.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:35pm

This is a Fox Cable divide-us-further specialty, and the book with this title comes from that Gibson fellow, whose bug-eyed rage always peaks when he defends "traditional values." (Why are right wing lovers of their hearth/home "values" so damn nasty all the time? Who'd want to sign up for their pissy agenda, with all that anger spewing forth? What Jesus -- the Prince of Peace -- do they pray to?)

As pointed out, it's the usual bait n'switch. Worry about "Christmas" instead of "holiday," and ignore poverty, war, and myriad other problems.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:35pm

I don't understand what the big deal is. One of the things I heard mentioned was people changing the words to Christmas carols so they won't offend anyone. When I was in elementary school, I sang the driedel song with the rest of my class and it didn't occur to me to have my parents sue the school.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:36pm

Good one, Jerby.
Our country was founded on the premise of "freedom to choose religion."
Today, the "mainstream" (or at least the people screaming the loudest) want it to be "freedom to choose our religion."

[Plum]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:38pm

It's not any school's fault that American Chanukah songs are tripe.

[Calvin]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:39pm

Why can't everyone simply leave December alone, and allow everyone to call their festive time in December whatever they want, and to celebrate it without criticism or comment from others?

That's really what I was trying to say. If a store wants its employees read the Christmas story from Matthew to its customers as they check out all through December, then that's the store's prerogative. But if a store doesn't want to pigeonhole it's customers and be more inclusive, then that's also the store's prerogative, and to call for boycotts based on that is inane.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:41pm

Plum, while I totally get what you are saying, it is a matter of semantics.

I have this same argument when people insist that marriage is only a religious word. Well, quite clearly marriage is not a religious word for everyone and neither is Christmas. People who only celebrate Santa Claus and trees and presents are not celebrating a religious holiday. And I know Jews who have Christmas trees---they enjoy the secular aspect of the holiday.

This all can be said for Easter, too.

And, when I was in choir in California, we sang at least one or two Jewish songs amongst our Christmas songs---gorgeous music. My choir teacher in college in a smaller town in Texas tried this and we got letters!!!! I was DISGUSTED.

And, I find THIS particularly revolting as I tend to think that Christians would embrace many Jewish traditions as we share the Old Testament and Jesus was Jewish!!

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:42pm

But, Calvin! IT's my fundamental agenda/purpose/being to convert you! So, therefore, I must disagree and boycott anything which does not 100% suit my desires and needs in terms of Jesus. And only Jesus as I have defined him. Definitely not by reading what He says in the Bible. I just make it up and pick and choose what Jesus would do. But one thing I KNOW Jesus would do is boycott stupid stores who try to secularize his birthday.
What? You mean Christmas was a stolen pagan holiday? You mean it's not Jesus' actual birthday? You're wrong! History is written by liberals!

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:42pm

So good I had to post it twice.

Go Jesus!
Updated On: 11/27/05 at 12:42 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:46pm

JRB, how do you fit the fact that people of all races and religious pursuations profit from the Christmas holiday?

Should profits during period only be limited to those who celebrate the holiday?

Should only artists who are Christions be singing, recording and selling Christmas recordings? (Hello, Barbra?), as someone posted in another thread?

It can be carried to the absurd.

This is an issue that has no answer, in my opinion, other than people should simply be left alone.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:48pm

And I know Jews who have Christmas trees---they enjoy the secular aspect of the holiday.

I've heard of people doing that, too, and I just don't get it. This isn't Thanksgiving, a funny American tradition my family happily adopted. It's a religious holiday at heart, the birthday of a guy, who, as far as I'm concerned, was a charismatic carpenter.

We inflated Chanukah to its current American status as an act of self-defense against being completely left out of any holiday merriment around the winter solstice. Why have a Christmas tree? To me, at that point you're losing track of your Jewishness.

"Chanukah, oh Chanukah
Oh dreidl and menorah
We celebrate it even though
It isn't in the Torah"
Updated On: 11/27/05 at 12:48 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:49pm

Jose--I'm talking about respecting all people by allowing phrases like Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings if you choose---that people who want Merry Christmas only not get their panties in a wad if a store or person chooses to be generic to respect all

I don't know WHAT you are talking about in that last post--has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:52pm

Well, Plum, I can only say that to those Jews, it is completely secular--and I don't know how else to convey that many people just don't celebrate Christmas and Easter as a religious holiday. Regardless of it's origin, it has evolved into a secular holiday about Santa and the Easter Bunny to many.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:53pm

Sorry, JRB. Must be the fact that I'm multi-tasking and I'm rolling some pie dough out with my feet, and I wasn't fully concentrating.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:56pm

Regardless of it's origin, it has evolved into a secular holiday about Santa and the Easter Bunny to many.

As was pointed out previously, this is happening in a country that's mostly Gentile. So "Christian" becomes conlfated with "American" somehow, and we get Jews with Christmas trees and cranks who insist that saying "Happy Holidays" is unpatriotic. It's just two faces of the same phenomenon.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:56pm

And for the record, I ADORE Barbra's Christmas albums!!

[Dollypop]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 12:59pm

Did anyone stop to notice that Christmas, Channukah and Kwanza are all within days of each other this year? Why don't we look at the positive and not the negative.

Let's enjoy each others' rituals and customs. My Jewish friends LOVE to drive around the community and see the various Christmas displays on peoples' lawns. I get a heartwarming feeling when I drive through a Jewish neighborhood and see menorahs lit in the front windows of homes.

As a Jewish student of mine said many years ago: "When it comes to religion, we are all making the same phone call. We just have different long distance services." He was only 15 years old but hit the nail right on the head.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/27/05 at 1:00pm

Tony Kushner gets all the credit, Undi. Caroline, or Change- quotes for every occassion!