Getting closer to outlawing abortion? — Page 3

DGrant:

1. Did you think the tortfeasor was liable?

No, my argument in 1992 was the fetus did not have rights and therefore could not have a cause of action against the tortfeasor. By giving the fetus legal rights, you go down the road of possibility of the rights of the fetus trumping the rights of the woman., thus making an abortion illegal.

2. What would it take to change the civil liability to a criminal one?

Civil liability comes from common law or by a legislative body granting a cause of action. Generally, criminal liability comes from a state or federal statute which prohibits certain activities.

If there is criminal liability for the death of the fetus, could the woman have a civil action against the boyfriend for wrongful death of the fetus? That action would likely have to be granted by statute because my recollection is that under common law a fetus had no rights, thus the reason for these types of statutes.

Common law
A system of law that is derived from judges' decisions (which arise from the judicial branch of government), rather than statutes or constitutions (which are derived from the legislative branch of government).

"Common law
A system of law that is derived from judges' decisions"

This is where my worry is coming from (although, I can't deny my ignorance of how this all works.) It seems to me that there are judgements being handed down that COULD be interpreted as giving 'rights to the fetus' (I really don't know how to express that without sounding so clinical and dismissive.) And I'm wondering who or what group could take those together and move forward with a 'common law' decision.

Because most people are responsible.

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but robbiej, you make it sound as if think people use abortion as a means of birth control, which I don't think is the case. You say you support the right to choose, so leave it at that. Obviously there's some circumstance that has gotten a person to that point and whether it was through irresponsibility, a contraceptive that didn't work or rape, someone is at that point.

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bunch,

You are correct. I should leave it at that. I guess I'm a little touchy because of some of the comments made in the Steam Room thread that were incredibly judgemental. There does seem to be a bit of a double standard (especially recently) of gay men once again being put under a microscope because of the recent spike in HIV infections due to crystal meth and yet it's taboo to suggest that heterosexuals should be as concerned about preventing pregnancy.

When I think of my friends who have terminated pregnancies, they (we, actually) were all so young. I wish they, and in some cases, I, were made fully aware of our options as sexual beings. I wish someone encouraged us to masturbate and explore other ways of express ourselves sexually besides penetration. Perhaps my anger is more at those who are supposed to teach us about such things, but couldn't because of embarrassment or it wasn't 'proper'. And I can assure you that some of my anger is certainly about the many conversations I've had with my straight friends over the years who assure me that they really aren't at risk for HIV. So I do apologize if I've offended anyone.

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I think more people use abortion as a method of birth control than would like to admit it.

I also think one of the points Robbiej made is correct- how difficult is it to be responsible? If you don't want to get pregnant then you do what you have to do to prevent that happening, you don't let it happen and then abort it.

Then again, what do I know? I'm not pro-choice.

But, that doesn't matter because the truth of the matter is abortion is legal. And yes, I do think the father should have a right to have a say in what happens. I know most people don't agree with that but I think that his rights should be at least considered if not always upheld. Why? Because he was as much a part of getting pregnant as the woman is. I understand the belief that "its my body no one can tell me what to do with it" but if its your body then shouldn't you be actively preventing pregnancy if you don't want to get pregnant?

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