Getting fined for not voting

[gertiecummings]

Posted: 9/9/08 at 11:46pm

So as we all know most Americans don't vote. One day at my work we were talking about that and my manager said that apparently in Europe (or at least parts of it) you have to pay a fine if you don't vote. Is that the solution? How big a difference do you think that would make here in the US?

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 9/9/08 at 11:51pm

I'm repulsed by people who don't vote. Too many people have fought, died, or given their life's service so that we can have that freedom. To treat it so disrespectfully, is disgusting. Yes. I say take the polling information, and levy a tax against those who don't vote. If they don't pay the tax, then suspend their driver's license. Of course, that would fly in the face of those very same people who gave up so much, so that you could have the freedom not to vote!

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 9/9/08 at 11:54pm

First of all compulsory voting is unconstitutional and un-American. People have fought in this country for these rights.

Sounds costly. Fining is a very expensive process.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/9/08 at 11:59pm

The only thing bothering me about the prospect of fining is that you then force people to vote who may be totally ignorant of the issues, or who don't care. These people may just vote for any 'ol candidate just to keep from being fined.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 12:03am

Believe it or not there are religious groups in this country that do not vote because it is against their religions.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 12:17am

I've often thought that that the day we vote as a nation should be a national holiday.

As for fines, I think it is a great idea. If you don't know whom to vote for, or simply don't care there could be a "pass" option on the ballot.

But what I'd REALLY like to see is instant run off voting. It could increase the voice of third party candidates.

Updated On: 9/10/08 at 12:17 AM

[Trekkie2]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 12:27am

If they forced everyone to vote, Hillary would have a big chance as a write in. I know tons of people who are doing that anyway, despite how often I tell them it's a waste of a vote.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 12:36am

I'm pretty sure I'd be voting for her if she were running.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 12:45am

It's not a waste of a vote to vote for Hillary or anyone else. It's only a waste to not vote.

[Weez]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 5:29am

I used to really like the idea of making voting compulsory, because if not everyone is voting, then how can the results possibly be representative of what the country actually wants?

Then I thought about it and figured an uninformed vote can be more dangerous than an uncast one, so I'm happy to leave it as it is until someone can figure out a way to ensure 1) that everyone eligible votes and 2) they know who they're voting for and why. PIPE DREAM!

[paradox_error]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 8:05am

Well, as someone from a country that has compulsory voting, I would have to say that I wouldn't want it any other way.
Australians are particularly politically apathetic, and estimates show that voter turnout could be as low as 10-20%. The last federal election (in 2007) had a voter turnout of 96%, and that compares to less than 50% in the years before the law passed in 1924.
I think compulsory voting reflects the idea that voting is not just a right, it is a responsibility. And I think that the idea that while an uninformed vote is a poor one, I think the point is that democracy is about representing everyone, not just the politically-charged.
In Australia, it is not compulsory to vote, per se, it is compulsory to attend a voting booth. What you do after you register your attendence is your own decision. If you want to screw up the piece of paper and trash it, that's your prerogative.
Because voting is compulsory, it becomes the role of the state to ensure that everyone votes, not the other way around. I think, while this could be subject to abuse, it ensures that the process of voting itself is completely non-partisan. The Australian Electoral Commission means that far fewer of the issues that occur in the US happen here, like partisan control of the state voting apparatus (see Florida 2000).
Also, because we all have to vote, voting has to be extremely easy. At the last election, there were 3 voting booths within 1km of my house. Early voting, absentee-voting and the like are all extremely fuss-free. Voting is always on a Saturday, which ensures that the vast majority don't have problems with work (unlike the mind-boggling Tuesday elections in the US)...That has nothing to do with compulsory voting, but it's always baffled me as to why your electoral apparatus endeavours to make voting so difficult.
And at the end of the day, if you still don't want to vote, the fine is only $40, which you can appeal quite easily. It's not a very big deal...
Anyway, as you can tell I'm a big fan of compulsory voting, and before you criticise it, you should at least look into it a bit more, and look at some of the countries where it really does work.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 8:10am

Oh, and uninformed voters still abound in the US despite voluntary voting. Do I need to dredge up clips from the West Virginia Democratic Primary?
Compulsory voting helps target apathetic voters, many of whom may have well-developed political opinions.
The right to vote never stipulated anything about being informed, so I think that's a moot point.

[Mistress Overdone]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 8:16am

So everyone who doesn't vote is lazy, a deadbeat, or stupid? What about people whose beliefs are not supported by any candidate who choose not to support politicians whose views oppose theirs? What about those who feel that the system is so corrupt they can't in good conscience support it by voting? And what about those who do not have the mental competence to remember their own name or what the year is, much less cast a vote?

[Urban]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 8:26am

As another Australian, just like paradox_error, I do support the concept and cannot imagine it any other way (nor want to)

Technically though, I'll just point out, it is compulsory attendence NOT compulsory voting. You can cast a blank or spoilt ballot if you wish (and people do) or even pocket the ballot. As long as you get your name marked off the roll, you have done your duty.

Also here, voting is not considered a civil right, it is considered a civil duty. Just like jury duty, reporting a crime and taxes it is what you do to contribute to a healthy and active society.

The onus of making sure people get the ability to vote is on the Electoral Commission - they provide pre-poll voting, absentee, mail voting and voting in another district if you are not at home on election day are all legitimate and okay (naturally as long as you don't do it multiple times hehe).

And to be fair the Electoral Commission is pretty lenient in excuses in not voting, as long as you don't say 'I didn't want to' they tend to accept any half-baked reason.


Updated On: 9/10/08 at 08:26 AM

[paradox_error]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 8:58am

Hey Urbie!
What you said!!

[Urban]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 9:17am

Right on

I am sure there is some wise sage quote from some long dead Greek philosopher somewhere about healthy societies being active ones or something to that effect, but I am too butt lazy to google it, but I figure compulsory voting is similiar to that.

Plus without compulsory voting actually helps curtail the extremes in society. The reason why America is so split between left and right is because that who dominates the grass-roots of both major parties, thus getting horrible and irrational extremism. While in a compulsory voting society you have to court the centre, the moderates, the swings on issues that actually matter, not just empty rhetoric and negative campaigning.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 9:50am

Getting fined for not voting is like getting fined for not going to church. It would be nice if everyone did the right thing, but sometimes people don't want to participate. And they shouldn't be forced to participate in the process if they choose not to.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 9:53am

I'm not saying I support compulsory voting; I hadn't thought about it, really.

But, Mistress Overdone, couldn't your arguments be made against paying taxes as well? They don't get you off the hook there.

And, Goth, I'd say a similar thing to you: forcing someone to vote is not at all like forcing someone to go to church. It's much more like forcing the paying of taxes, in my opinion.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 10:20am

I want LESS people to vote, not more. The huge unwashed uninformed majority is what put George W Bush in office.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 10:23am

The low percentage of people who vote in the US shows just how pathetic things are here. To me it shows that the overwhelming majority doesn't care who leads their country. That's the bottom line to me-apathy.

[kelzama]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 10:36am

First of all compulsory voting is unconstitutional and un-American. People have fought in this country for these rights.

Never thought I'd agree with mejust, but he's absolutely right.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 10:42am

It's a ridiculous idea for the U.S. As stated before there are some religious groups in the US...like Jehovah's Witnesses...for whom voting is against their religion. Forcing them to vote would be unconstitutional.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 10:49am

So for those people, Erik-what's the story? I'm curious. Do they believe that their leaders should be appointed? And by whom? Who gave the appointers the power? I'd love to know.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 10:58am

I have a friend who is a Jehovah's Witness and we talked about this once...but I could have this wrong and don't have time to look it up.

I believe the simple version is they believe the one true leader is God. And that they believe voting and politics in general go against the word of God.

I know they have a website where you can probably find more accurate information.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/10/08 at 11:17am

I found this blurb on their website..

"7. Jesus' disciples must be no part of this wicked world. (John 17:16) They do not get involved in the world's political affairs and social controversies."