Hating Hillary- Page 3

[Luscious]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 9:59pm

"That has not been my experience. I socialize in a young and highly liberal circle, where Obama is favored 10 to 1. I support Hillary, but it was a close decision so I'll be happy to put my support towards Obama in the general election."

And that's good to hear, Craww. Because I socialize in a not-so-young fairly liberal circle that includes family, friends and co-workers, and my experience has been vastly different. I can honestly say that I don't personally know a single Obama supporter who has said that they would vote for McCain over Hillary should she win the nomination. But I've heard numerous Hillary supporters, both here and elsewhere, state that under no circumstances would they ever consider voting for Obama if the situation were reversed. I'm not trying to invalidate your experience. It is what it is. But why is it okay to acknowledge that there has been "staggering amounts of misogyny" in regard to Hillary, while the mere suggestion that racism may be playing a part in people's aversion to Obama is dismissed as unsubstantial and without merit? Just as misogyny is so deeply ingrained in the fabric of our society, and difficult at times to discern, so too is racism; and subtle, as well as not so subtle, forms of both are still accepted and embraced by far too many in our society.

I still want to know how anyone who supports Hillary could even think of voting for McCain should Obama win the nomination. What is the rationale? How can you vote for someone who is diametrically opposed to almost everything you believe in? I think it's a fairly simple question. I've been asking it both here and elsewhere for weeks and have yet to get a straight answer. As an Obama supporter, I would NEVER consider voting for McCain over Hillary. So, I ask again, how does a Hillary supporter rationalize voting for McCain over Obama? If you're against the war in Iraq continuing indefinitely, in favor of a woman's right to choose, supportive of universal health care, in favor of immigration reform (just to name a few issues), how in good conscience can you even consider voting for McCain?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:03pm

I agree. Because I think the difference between Hillary and McCain is big. But, the Reagan Democrats (those who are not racist) may choose to vote no more left than Hillary. Many of them see Obama as very left. Very elitist.

I'm not saying they are correct or being rational. It's just the matter at hand for some people.

[Liverpool]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:05pm

Why is being Elite a bad thing? I don't some dumb, common schlg decisions for this country? I mean, we've seen how well that's worked for the last 7 and a half years.

[tazber]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:06pm

"But I've heard numerous Hillary supporters, both here and elsewhere, state that under no circumstances would they ever consider voting for Obama if the situation were reversed."

I can't recall hearing anyone here say that. People have expressed their dislike for obama and many have also expressed reservations, but no one has said flat out that they won't vote for him.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:15pm

I don't think elite is bad, but I imagine to the poor or uncultured it comes off as classicism. The reality is that it's the elites that care about the poor.

It's the good ol boy Republicans that have been making the poor poorer and the corporations/oil men richer.

[Craww]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:18pm

It is what it is. But why is it okay to acknowledge that there has been "staggering amounts of misogyny" in regard to Hillary, while the mere suggestion that racism may be playing a part in people's aversion to Obama is dismissed as unsubstantial and without merit?

I don't personally feel that way. I'm sure there's plenty of merit to that suggestion. I think the reason it's seen that way is because racism is not as politically and socially tolerated as misogyny. Even the racist people are afraid of seeming racist, whereas you'll find gobs of people who are happy to publically deride and disconnect themselves from the causes of feminism.

The accusations of subtle or subtextual racism in opposition of Obama have mostly hurt the credibility of the people making the comments. The subtle and subtexual misogynistic comments don't seem to be hurting the commenters to a comparable extent.

[Liverpool]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:21pm

The subtle and subtexual misogynistic comments don't seem to be hurting the commenters to a comparable extent.

that's because those people never had credibility to begin with.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:40pm

The subject like is the title of the essay cited. Did you even take the time to read it before changing the subject line?

[Liverpool]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:45pm

obviously they didn't. Why do you ask questions that you already know the answer to?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:53pm

How about you, handsome? Did you read it?

[Liverpool]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:55pm

I'd read used toilet paper before I read La Diabla Grande propaganda.

[Luscious]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 10:56pm

"I can't recall hearing anyone here say that. People have expressed their dislike for obama and many have also expressed reservations, but no one has said flat out that they won't vote for him."

Admittedly, that may have been somewhat of an over-statement in regard to this board, but I've definitely heard it said often elsewhere.

"But, the Reagan Democrats (those who are not racist) may choose to vote no more left than Hillary. Many of them see Obama as very left. Very elitist."

Point taken. And that may very well be true for some, or even most. But it could also be a convenient way of rationalizing and attempting to mask their bigotry. I agree with Craww. It's less socially acceptable to be a racist than it is to be a misogynist. So, I guess we'll never really know for sure. No one (well almost no one) is going to admit publicly that they would never consider voting for a black (or even half-black) man for President.

Updated On: 5/28/08 at 10:56 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/28/08 at 11:01pm

The goddess in me salutes the goddess in you, Liver-pootie-poo.

How about you, Lush-o'-my-life, did you read the article?