Help! Any English Majors?

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:15am

Okay, I know there's a student message board, but I really need help on a question on a stupid grammar worksheet to settle a debate, and people barely post there. Here's the sentence:

The Moniter and the Merrimac, perhaps the two most significant ships in modern naval history, fought a single battle against each other, rendering not just the other vessels of the Union and Confederate navies, but the the armadas of the world's great powers, obsolete.

I added my corrections in there, except there is only one comma I'm unsure of: the one after powers. I told my friend you keep it there, because it is really saying "rendering not just the other vessels of the Union and Confederate navies obsolete" and the group of words "but the armadas of the world's great powers" is interrupting that phrase. Since everyone here loves correct grammar, lol, perhaps you can help settle this stupid debate. Am I wrong? Might I add that we're not supposed to make new sentences or change capitilization. We also can't switch stuff around.

Updated On: 3/31/06 at 07:15 AM

[Broadway_Baby]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:27am

Your comma usage is correct.


But that is one wordy-ass sentence...

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:45am

I have nothing to add because it looks correct to me, too, but I love you, Baby, for using my favorite new phrase: "wordy-ass."

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:47am

Should wordy-ass by single hyphenated, double hyphenated or not hyphenated at all?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:50am

I think it depends upon usage?
"you are one wordy-ass mofo, Somms." (Adjective)
"that billboard is Wordy Ass." (Noun)

[Princeton78]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:52am

It's perfect Millie.
YAAAY!

[jasonf]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:58am

What a ridiculous assignment. That sentence is so poorly written. If one of my students turned it in, I would have made him redo it.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 8:00am

That's Mr. Mofo to you, curly!

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 8:01am

I know...a lot of the sentences he gives us on these grammar worksheets are poorly written. I've searched numerous websites and leafed through my grammar manuel, but can't find anything to help me answer this. The question though is, why is the comma there in the first place? How would it be different if it was eliminated. And would you eliminate the comma before "but"?

Updated On: 3/31/06 at 08:01 AM

[LightMyCandle]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 8:48am

All I can see is the pair of "the's" at the end of the passage.

[DBillyP]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 9:40am

Yeah, I am not so sure about that comma. I agree with your reasoning for keeping it, Millie, but I could argue that the important part of the sentence is "the armadas of the world's great powers," in which case I would remove that comma and add one before "not."

The truly proper thing to do in this case is rewrite the sentence.

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 9:43am

Are you allowed to add words and separate it into more than one sentence? It'd make it a great deal less awkward and wordy.

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 9:46am

This is probably a bad idea, but maybe you could try:


The Moniter and the Merrimac (perhaps the two most significant ships in modern naval history) fought a single battle against each other, rendering not just the other vessels of the Union and Confederate navies, but the the armadas of the world's great powers, obsolete.

[Calvin]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 9:49am

Actually, could you reword the whole thing and get rid of that dreadfully long participle clause? And never underestimate the power of an em dash. I mean, if it really has to all be one sentence.

The single battle between the Moniter and the Merrimac -- perhaps the two most significant ships in modern naval history -- rendered the other vessels of the Union and Confederate navies as well as the armadas of the world's great powers obsolete.
Updated On: 3/31/06 at 09:49 AM

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 10:17am

She mentioned she's not allowed to alter the number of sentences.
Reading comprehension, fellas!

[Calvin]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 10:21am

Reading comprehension would imply that I read the whole thing.

In that case, she should just scratch the whole thing out and tell the teacher the sentence is a poorly written piece of crap that is beyond help.

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 10:23am

Gotta love stupid grammar worksheets like that.

And all of the sentences are awful (I graded enough of them for two years straight).

But you are right

[Elphaba]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 10:32am

millie, I hope you pay these people to do your homework......

[jasonf]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 10:59am

I'm not sure that comma before the but needs to be there. Commas need to come before coordinating conjunctions only - not regular conjunctions. In this sentence, you're not connecting two independent clauses there....

I repeat, this is a ridiculous exercise since NO ONE in the real world would write a sentence like this and NOT break it in two.

[SweetQintheLights]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 12:02pm

I am in my English/technical writing class now. When the class is over, I will ask my teacher about the paragraph (if he has time.)

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 12:07pm

Well here's what I ended up doing (I already handed the sheet in). I didn't cross out the comma before "obsolete," and I didn't add dashes, although now that I read Calvin's idea, that's something I probably could've done. Anyways, I wrote this long ass note to the teacher about how the sentence was poorly written and explained my reason. If I could, I would completely alter the sentence - I had to read it at least 50,000 times, and I still don't fully understand it.

Also, in high school, they never drilled grammar into our heads, so grammar isn't one of my strongest points.

By the way, thank you. I can't believe one lousy comma is irking me!

Updated On: 3/31/06 at 12:07 PM

[SweetQintheLights]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 1:41pm

Not that it matters since you turned it in but:

"The Moniter and the Merrimac, perhaps the two most significant ships in modern naval history, fought a single battle against each other, rendering not just the other vessels of the Union and Confederate navies, but THE THE armadas of the world's great powers, obsolete."

As my teacher pointed out, there are 2 'thes,' in which I capitalized. He said the commas were in the right place but the sentence was poorly worded. However, he said that it was not a run-on sentence according to English/grammar rules. Also, the word obsolete is a modifier of the verb rendering and it loses it's real meaning when the modifier is so far from the verb as it is in this sentence.

I know you couldn't change the stuff in the sentence but there is extra information.

[lovesclassics]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 2:24pm

I'm with Broadway Baby. That wordy-ass sentence is grammatically correct. The commas belong exactly where they are.

lc

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 4:21pm

haha! I didn't even notice "the the".

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 4:23pm

People who posted on this thread might be interested in this quiz.

http://eatsshootsandleaves.com/ESLquiz.html