Interesting Stance on Immigration...

[ComaBaby01]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:06pm

Found this on a friend's blog. Not necessarily MY stance, but I thought it was thought-provoking at the least, and would inspire some more BWW debate (not that it's needed, mind you...):

***************************************************************

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.

But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house)."

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house.
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan.
You are Required to educate my kids.
You are Required to provide other benefits to me & to my family.
(My husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America.

***************************************************************

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:19pm

Oy. It's like a low-rent Rush Limbaugh.

[ComaBaby01]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:22pm

Oh, my friends a severe republican, and I can't stand some of the things he says. He actually got this from one of his friend's blog.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:29pm

Maybe that person should spend a few years in Mexico, a country that is systematically oppressed by the United States and its own government and then draw a conclusion.

It’s fascinating how quickly people in this country are to judge these people. Our government does nothing but encourage the system in place. We also have a history of allowing other people in this country on refugee and asylum status. Which I imagine an argument could be made for Mexican immigrants who might otherwise starve to death.

I think building better bounds with said problem country might be a healthier option. As for the 12 million people here in the US. I’m not going to argue the morality of “illegally” crossing a border. I will argue though the treatment of these people is wrong, unconstitutional and our exploitation of them is the problem.

Immigrants do not steal work from Americans, past governments did. Where have all the labor jobs gone? Why is everything in Wal-Mart from China and South America? How is any American supposed to raise a family on a migrant worker salary with no health insurance? I would just not work at all.

Updated On: 6/4/07 at 02:29 PM

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:32pm

I read recently how this America has changed... when we were developing, we were happy to welcome immigrants for other countries. That's how this country was founded, after all. The American Dream. But now that we are a weatlhy nation, we don't want anyone else coming to share in the wealth. We've become a selfish, power-hungry nation.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:38pm

Well latter day Mexicans (aka African Slaves) helped build this "great" country, and we still can't share with them.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:49pm

"Maybe that person should spend a few years in Mexico, a country that is systematically oppressed by the United States and its own government and then draw a conclusion."

How does that make it okay to break our laws? Shouldn't they fix what's wrong with their contry OR go through the proper channels to legally enter ours?

[misschung]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:54pm

Interesting blog entry.

when we were developing, we were happy to welcome immigrants for other countries. That's how this country was founded, after all.

Well, I wouldn't say that the way this country was "founded" had much to do with welcoming immigrants - I mean are you going back to Columbus or are you talking about the 19th century boom in immigration? And if you are, those immigrants weren't exactly welcomed in with open arms either. But I do see where you're coming from, and its ridiculous to all of a sudden adopt this insular attitude - particularly post 9/11.

Mejusthavingfun, I agree with you - the whole situation is a mess and we are at loss for a quick fix. While I understand the sentiment that illegal aliens and immigrants are taking jobs - the corporations themselves are responsible for setting that stage. Its no coincidence that any time you call any major corporation you aren't even talking to someone on this continent. Who else in this country is going to work for those wages? You can barely live on them. And it is very unfortunate that people living here legally don't have the opportunity to take those jobs first. There is going to be no domestic working or middle class soon at the rate we're going. As for the problems facing these immigrants in their home countries - you know what? Other countries have problems too, and I'm very sympathetic to their situation, but at the same time it doesnt give them the right to break the law.

end rant

Updated On: 6/4/07 at 02:54 PM

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:05pm

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" - Emma Lazarus

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:14pm

So, it's ok to let them stay here, as long as they do work that the rest of us "don't want" to do?

There is a right (legal) way to immigrate and a wrong (illegal) way. We can't simply say that illegal Mexican immigrants are ok but everyone else from other countries still has to go through the legal channels.

My partner (from Germany) and I will be prevented from being together in the U.S. for YEARS by doing it the "right" way. How is that supposed to be ok with me while this country sits by and does NOTHING to MILLIONS of ILLEGAL immigrants who knowingly did it the WRONG way??
Updated On: 6/4/07 at 03:14 PM

[misschung]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:24pm

myb - I dont know if you're responding to my post, but if you are, I should clarify. When I asked 'who else is going to take those jobs' I meant that these companies look for the cheapest labor possible, and often hire illegal immigrants regardless of their status. These people take the jobs because they need money and their employers look the other way regarding their status. I absolutely disagree that they should stay here because they do the grunt work that Americans don't want to do -- a generation ago, people with jobs as busdrivers were able to be the sole source of income for their family and take a vacation every year. Not the case anymore.

That's terrible that you and your partner should have to go through that, and I know of many similar cases, unfortunately

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:26pm

No, not yours specifically...but that's generally the argument people to use to allow (Mexican) illegal immigrants to stay.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:34pm

>>"How does that make it okay to break our laws? "

I didn't say it was ok to break "our" laws. Maybe it's not ok that we break our own laws. Like allowing these people in. 12 million people did not sneak into this country. Many of them came in on Visas and moved to "illegal" status.


>>>"Shouldn't they fix what's wrong with their contry"

Mexican's tried to fix their country by voting in 2006, it is unfortunate but they are only as powerful as the US government. Whatever we say goes, their efforts are futile not matter how they vote. The US has the power to set Meixco on the right course. Instead we enourage NAFTA and a Mexican oligarchy. Mexicans did not choose to be oppressed.

It's a very good thing the rest of Carib/Central/South America is blocked off. We would have millions from Haiti, Honduras, Panama, DR, Colombia, Bolivia, Guyana, etc. All escaping the same crap.


>>>OR go through the proper channels to legally enter ours? "

The current system in place enourages people to avoid the "proper channels." Most people that want to come to the US do not have the money or meet the "requirements" to even visit the US. Go to Mexico, read up, and learn why people would want to sneak into this country.

Given a choice letting my family starve or sneaking into a country that has wealth beyond all reason, I would break the "law." Is it "legal" for the US to oppress another nation? That should be the question.


I would go so far to say that the US should grant asylum to every single Iraqi displaced by the war.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:38pm

MYB- Sorry our partner problem has nothing to do with this and I wish you would not group them.

What you are talking about is the fact that Democrats and Republicans do not support equality. If Democrats and Republicans treated gay people as equals this would not be a problem. It is not the same thing.


There is no other way but to give these 12 million people some kind of path to citizenship. We can't send them back. That will NEVER happen.

We need to encourage a better life in Mexico.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:40pm

While I tend to agree with the blog, I do not place the majority of the blame on the immigrants themselves. I blame the employers who hire illegal immigrants (an illegal act in itself) and the government for turning a blind eye to the exploitation of illegal immigrants for so long. I do blame the protesting immigrants for spitting in the eyes of legal immigrants who worked so hard to enter this country legally, especially those from other continents outside of the Americas. But the bottom line is, if they choose to enter illegally, work in the US illegally, and are exploited by employers through illegal employment, it doesn't automatically result in any kind of legal rights as immigrants or citizens. It's preposterous. If illegal immigrants get rights and protection and insurance, hell, why require passports for anyone? If they don't have to pay taxes, why should I? I think I'll go to Germany or France and demand my rights there as well. We'll see how well that goes over. And while I'm at it, I'll go to Japan, and tell them they have to provide insurance and medical coverage for me because I'm going to stay as long as I want.

Perhaps we should start intiating protective rights absolving anyone of all illegal activity and personal responsibility. Wouldn't that be sweet?

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:45pm

I'm fully aware that my problem is a matter of immigration equality. But my point is that immigration is bigger than Mexico. How on earth am I supposed to take the (legal) immigration system seriously while the U.S. grants amnesty to (or simply ignores) millions of illegal immigrants simply because we judge them to be from and under-privileged country?

So, it's my partner's fault for having career aspirations and 2 university degrees? I don't think so. He deserves to be GIVEN a "path to citizenship" as much as anyone else.

Updated On: 6/4/07 at 03:45 PM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:46pm

I'm sorry but there are circumstances where people need to leave their country with or without the approval some other nation.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:47pm

So, again, my partner would be better off coming from a poor, oppressive country? Nice double-standard.

I couldn't agree more with you, Mister Matt...and not just because your avatar is a Berlin photo.
Updated On: 6/4/07 at 03:47 PM

[kelzama]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:50pm

A good friend was a Mexican immigrant. Legal. She's worked off her backside for the last several years to earn her citizenship.
She thinks the illegal immigrants are just that...illegal. She doesn't understand why they should get a free pass.

RE: "I read recently how this America has changed... when we were developing, we were happy to welcome immigrants for other countries. That's how this country was founded, after all. The American Dream"

Not quite. There's a terrific documentary on A&E, maybe?, that details the very strict, albeit subjective, standards that Ellis Island had for admittance of immigrants. Any apparent defect or disease (cough, poor eyesight, poor hearing, physical deformity, etc.) and you didn't get in. Families were quite literally torn apart.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:57pm

MYB - I am in the same situation as you are. My boyfriend is a foreign national here legally. (Subsequently here from a developing nation).

Maybe your boyfriend knows something about people fleeing an oppressive government (being from Germany and all.)


I'm not offering a double standard. I stated the US oppresses Mexico. We are directly responsible for these people coming here. There are 12 million of them here. They are not going anywhere. Deal with it.

I think the most productive thing to do is encourage their home country to improve.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:58pm

"I'm sorry but there are circumstances where people need to leave their country with or without the approval some other nation."

And there are sanctuary laws in place for that, such as seeking political asylum.

MYB - Sounds like you're in the same boat as me. My partner also has two degrees and works in an occupation most of the large US cities claim to have a desperate need for, yet no one will even interview him unless he already has a work Visa, which they refuse to sponsor. And the government (both US and Spain) encourages illegal immigration and illegal marriage by not granting equal rights to same-sex unions. And believe me, my partner and I would be willing to mow lawns or clean toilets if it meant we could be together, but we choose to immigrate legally so as not to be put into a position of deportation and permanent separation.

"There are 12 million of them here. They are not going anywhere. Deal with it."

We are. The ones who can't deal with it are the ones here illegally demanding their rights.

Updated On: 6/4/07 at 03:58 PM

[misschung]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:00pm

mejusthavingfun - I agree that the US has the power to, and should set Mexico on a better path. And I understand that there are times when the law should be circumvented - both sides of my family left Communist countries because of this. However, that doesn't mean they aren't responsible for things like insurance and taxes the way that citizens are. And I'm not blaming this all on them - I have yet to see any policies set in place that can realistically deal with this situation. I mean if employers don't care if you're legal, why should they? It's a vicious cycle.

And while the Iraqis displaced by this war on terrorism absolutely deserve a safe haven, what about the millions of Americans who are still displaced from hurricane Katrina? We seem to have conveniently forgotten about them

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:02pm

Mister Matt - I know there are laws. Those asylum/amnesty laws are VERY complicated, the very people that need them could never get passed the front door.

But when you have mass amounts of people that we have pushed into poverty (Mexico, Iraq, Haiti, Colombia, Japan, many countries in Africa.) something needs to be done.

The US meddles in foreign policy what do we expect?

[misschung]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:03pm

I'm not sure that we currently think that far in advance, so it seems

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:05pm

Shame on you!