Interesting Stance on Immigration...- Page 2

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:06pm

>>>We are. The ones who can't deal with it are the ones here illegally demanding their rights.


I actually don't see many illegals demanding "rights." They just want to stay and work here.

The reason these protests were started was because recent legistlation to deport people. The government shouldn't be able to cherry pick people to deport, they should just do it all together or not at all.

I (the liberal that I am) demand that anyone working this country be covered by insurance and be paid a minimum wage.
Updated On: 6/4/07 at 04:06 PM

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:14pm

"I (the liberal that I am) demand that anyone working this country be covered by insurance and be paid a minimum wage."

I have a lot of friends, citizens, who work minimum wage and don't have insurance. What about them? You know how, when you're on a plane, the emergency instructions are to place an oxygen mask on yourself and then help the person beside you? Shouldn't we take care of our own first and then help others second? There are a lot of people in this country who have been born here that need help.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:16pm

Woa Sorry!!! That Airplane thing is mine!!!! I always say that.



In the words a Mexican "Exacto!"

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:16pm

"But when you have mass amounts of people that we have pushed into poverty (Mexico, Iraq, Haiti, Colombia, Japan, many countries in Africa.) something needs to be done."

Hoever, the US is not directly responsible for all the poverty in those countries. Partly responsible for a couple of them, yes, but if you're going to play that game, then there are hundreds of other countries to point the finger at for housing the world's poor for the exact same reason long before you get to the US. And that's not counting the poverty that previously existed in every country before the US was even involved. While we're at it, how about the US addressing its own citizens living in poverty?

I know it's the warm-fuzzy feel-good thing to do, but it is neither realistic nor unilaterally applicable in any realistic sense.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:26pm

"I actually don't see many illegals demanding 'rights.' They just want to stay and work here."

Oh, but they are. I've seen them with my own eyes.

"The reason these protests were started was because recent legistlation to deport people. The government shouldn't be able to cherry pick people to deport, they should just do it all together or not at all."

I agree in part. They should do it altogether. The problem is, they aren't doing much of anything at all, which encourages employers to hire illegal immigrants, which encourages illegal immigration, which encourages illegal immigrants to protest for wage increases, insurance, and medical care. Bottom line: If you aren't going to be punished for doing something illegal, you should be rewarded.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:28pm

Well I can argue ways the US is directly responsible. When you get as big as we are, and enourage oppressive leadership in nations you are taking resources from that is a problem.

Anyways back to Mexico. We make Mexico poor. That simple.

We make our country poor. We sent thousands of factories to Mexico over the last few decades. Sent them there so companies could pay people less, work them harder and keep profits up.

That is the cycle. That is NAFTA.



These people are not being rewarded. They still have to live under Bush and two political parties that support inequality. Anyways you can scream all day till Sunday and they wont deport them. Not 12 million. Never. That's an exodus. Ask Canadians why they don't come here. Their country doesn't put with our sh!t.
Updated On: 6/4/07 at 04:28 PM

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:35pm

"They still have to live under Bush and two political parties that support inequality."

Ok, but so do a lot of other people, namely those of us who are legal citizens. So what?

"Ask Canadians why they don't come here. Their country doesn't put with our sh!t."

I don't get your point. Could you elaborate?

Updated On: 6/4/07 at 04:35 PM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:44pm

That Bush thing was a bad joke.

The Canada part is this. Canada is rich with resources, oil, timber, and water. Canada has a good economy and the government works for the people. The US does not mess with Canada. Canada does not allow the US to march in and set up sweatshops. Canada does not allow human rights violations. NAFTA works for Canada, it does not work for Mexico.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:45pm

"Well I can argue ways the US is directly responsible. When you get as big as we are, and enourage oppressive leadership in nations you are taking resources from that is a problem."

You could also argue that most first-world countries have been doing the same thing a lot longer than the US has. I know it's very idealstic to say the US is responsible for all the evil in the world since the Big Bang or the Garden of Eden, or your existence theory of choice, but as many ways as you can argue the US is directly responsible, it can be argued other parties are responsible as well.

"We make our country poor. We sent thousands of factories to Mexico over the last few decades. Sent them there so companies could pay people less, work them harder and keep profits up."

And Mexico puts up with that sh!t. That too, is the cycle.

"These people are not being rewarded. They still have to live under Bush and two political parties that support inequality."

That's totally irrelevant. Bush and the antics of the current political parties are hardly a concern to those seeking to live and work illegally in the US.

[misschung]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:49pm

I don't really think our country is that poor - yet.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:51pm

This is more of a comment in general, but I don't like the way the U.S. is blamed for EVERYTHING bad that happens in the world. Oh, sure, we've done some bad things thanks to some really crappy leadership (not just the current), but don't other countries need to step up and own what they've done?

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:52pm

"And Mexico puts up with that sh!t. That too, is the cycle. "

Yes, that's why they come here (en mass). If you don't like it in Mexico, just go North at least the pay is better.

Ariba Ariba!

[Elphaba]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:56pm

the problem, sorry, is that we stick our noses in many more things than other countries do.......and frankly we are to blame for a lot. We need to take that responsibility.

We fashion America as the policeman to the world....hence we get blamed for a lot. Some of it is our fault, some not.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 4:57pm

Well with Mexico we are DIRECTLY responsible. NAFTA was us.

Allowing employers to illegally employ people is our fault.


We have a history of overthrow and oppression. We have done a lot of good in the world, but situations like Iraq are surely our signs that our process is broken.

At the end of the day we have the money and power to make this a better planet. Most of our choices are purely based on greed. It's a shame our leadership does not represent the good people that live here.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 5:03pm

"We have a history of overthrow and oppression."

A much briefer history than the majority of the world.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 5:11pm

Saying that blanket statement doesn't make us innocent. Sure there are countries like Sri Lanka that we have not touched. The ones I mentioned we sure have. Africa is the richest continent on Earth. The oil/diamond market is in the West. We are responsible for encouraging and endorsing rogue leadership in those places.


Also it's the 21st century. We are supposed to condemn slavery and genocide, yet we knowingly support it. That is criminal no matter what nation you are in.
Updated On: 6/4/07 at 05:11 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 5:21pm

"Saying that blanket statement doesn't make us innocent."

I didn't say we were. I'm saying we are not the only country in the world guilty of wrong-doing, overthrow, or oppression. I'm saying more countries are far more guiltier of it than we are. Africa's nations have been doing it to each other for centuries, and still are. Long before the US got involved in diamonds and oil. I guess the US is responsible for the British and German colonization of South Africa as well?

"We are responsible for encouraging and endorsing rogue leadership in those places."

In part, yes. As much as all the other countries involved. Yet the US is consistently placed with the sole responsibility simply for being the US. Honestly, it must be great to live in pretty much any other first-world country. If you're guilty of something, blame the US. You can always argue they are directly responsible for anything.