International Holocaust Remembrance Day 2017 — Page 2

I very confuse

Good News for everyone concerned about Israel. There is a New Sheriff in the UN.

Nikki Haley lays down the law on UN anti-Israel bias. Never again will the United States let an anti-Israel Resolution( 2334 ) pass

“I am here to underscore the ironclad support of the United States for Israel. I’m here to emphasize the United States is determined to stand up to the UN’s anti-Israel bias,” she announced.

Haley referenced the anti-Israel Resolution 2334, passed in December after former President Obama declined to veto the measure, which lashed Israel’s Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria and dealt a severe blow to Israel’s standing at the UN.

“We will never repeat the terrible mistake of Resolution 2334 and allow one-sided Security Council resolutions to condemn Israel,” she vowed.


Read more at https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/83900/haley-confronts-un-security-councils-israel-bias-first-meeting-watch/#quQjjkVg1eImY4kT.99

Youre reading and quoting Salon. You cant expect a serious reply.

We talk about Trump trying to create division and fear, then have people comparing his policies to Hitler. It seems a bit hypocritical and very disingenuous - I think we all know that it is not going to end the same way as the holocaust (and if you honestly believe that, I am concerned for you).

I don't think Trump's policies around his Muslim ban make any sense and are probably making things worse (I really wish Hillary Clinton was in office right now), but I at least appreciate that he has the guts to openly criticise one aspect of this religion (i.e., the relationship between religious beliefs and behaviours such as terrorism), which any intelligent atheist (see: Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens) would at least acknowledge.

We have been let down by left-wing politicians (including Bernie Sanders) who have championed Islam into their political platforms, which makes no sense given it is probably the most right-wing, conservative religion on this planet right now, with terrible consequences across the world for free-thinkers, women and gay people. Of course, as usual no one really cares about gay people and perceived 'racism' apparently trumps the importance of positive gay attitudes and gay rights.

I have seen time and time again people complain that criticism of religious ideologies is 'bigotry; racism; persecution'. Please don't fall for this disingenuous propaganda. We need to treat Muslims with respect and make sure they aren't abused or discriminated against while at the same time being able to criticise their belief system for what it is (1. Like all religions, not true 2. Harmful for the rights and attitudes of minorities 3. Potentially harmful for security and safety).

Updated On: 3/10/17 at 05:16 PM

I indeed sigh for the victims of Islam, who are of course mostly muslims. No muslim should have to flee their country and leave their family behind by boat because they have been threatened to be killed for being gay. No muslim should have to live closeted to their entire family or in sham heterosexual relationships, even after moving to a Western country such as Australia!

We talk about Trump trying to create division and fear, then have people comparing his policies to Hitler. It seems a bit hypocritical and very disingenuous

Sigh.

And thank you Jay Lerner-Z. As always, well done.

Qolbinau, I usually agree with you, but I think it's insulting to say Islam is the most right winged/conservative religion. I don't think you can just paintbrush any religion like that.

i have friends of Muslim faith who are more open than my friends who attend a Catholic Church.

Muslim based countries may have anti gay laws, but if anything the people coming here, who are trying to find protection, don't give a fu*k who's gay or not.

Mar6411, I don't tend to default to insults as so many people do here in these type of discussions because it's cheap, easy and has little value, but I honestly do wonder sometimes what the education levels of the people are like on this forum if you describe my post as 'word salad'. Even if the actual ideas are incorrect, I think I write in a clear enough way that anyone with a decent level of reading ability should be able to easily understand the ideas I am trying to express. Let's face it, the real issue is you don't agree with what I'm saying - not the actual way I have written the words on the page.

"Qolbinau, I usually agree with you, but I think it's insulting to say Islam is the most right winged/conservative religion. I don't think you can just paintbrush any religion like that.

i have friends of Muslim faith who are more open than my friends who attend a Catholic Church.

Muslim based countries may have anti gay laws, but if anything the people coming here, who are trying to find protection, don't give a fu*k who's gay or not."

I agree/you're right that it can be hard to paintbrush any entire religion, which are often very diverse (e.g., when you start looking at individuals - as you have observed there will be individual differences that are hard to account for in a generalised statement). I can only speak at a generalised/group-level, which won't account for all individuals.

As to the question of the attitudes of Muslim refugees - I can only speak anecdotally to this but as mentioned earlier I do know 3 gay muslims of different Syrian refugee families who have fled for safety, and the families don't seem to just forget their religious beliefs and attitudes. This is why these muslims are sadly living double lives. Plus, given the difficulty of attitude change (i.e., it's a very long-term process) I think we have good reason to believe that attitudes towards gay people in Islamic communities are something that is probably difficult to change in the short-term.

If we are speaking generally at least, I still can't wrap my head around why in left-wing communities right now there seems to be this double standard between attitudes towards Christianity and Islam. I do sleep easily knowing that I am at least consistent in my views and standards.

Given the atheist agenda is perhaps one of the least represented today, I don't think this discussion is had enough. And for those sitting there shaking there heads, I don't want to say what I'm about to say because I think the ideas stand on their own - but because some people here often seem reluctant to actually really engage in discussions and often make insults about perceived intelligence - please do note that this particular viewpoint is not some red-neck 'bigoted', 'uneducated' view the same way you might think of Trump when you hear him talk about muslims or Islam. The atheist agenda is characteristic of understanding the truth. really making an effort to understand and challenge ideas where necessary, and being consistent in one's views. They are frequently highly educated scientists. I know this is highly pretentious/condescending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVxGNPBuxzE


In this current political climate, it is a bit annoying that there is a tiny bit of overlap with the Atheist agenda and some of the right-wing attitudes towards Muslims or Islam. However, as discussed the right-wing views are hypocritical (given the similarity between their religious beliefs) and to me they might be founded on some racism/'bigotry'. The atheist views are based on an understanding of the attitudes and behaviours associated with holding certain religious beliefs - as you would expect given their close similarity, attitudes towards gay people in Islamic communities are similar to christian communities (or in the case of international Islamic communities, worse).

Given I care deeply about gay rights and gay attitudes, I don't want this criticism to be silenced in this political climate. In terms of specific policies that might be associated with this viewpoint, the long-term vision should be to improve education for children (teach them how to think - not what to think. Don't indoctrinate them with religious beliefs. Give them a wide religious and scientific education so that they can make the decision themselves).

The indoctrination of Children (some might call it abuse) is why I think we are in such a difficult political situation today. The Christian Party of America (aka the Republican Party) is one of the worst political platforms I have seen world-wide - yet still is able to command a terribly large following in the USA. I am confident that with better education systems this issue will not exist in the long-term future.

I know we are now drifting far off-topic, so I guess just to reiterate the purpose of these posts - it's in response to comments that Trump's criticism of muslims/Islam makes him similar to Hitler. I am trying to forward the viewpoint that I think there is genuine warranted criticism to be had of all religions, including Islam. We can't just sit here and all live peacefully together because religious people seem to want to insert their beliefs into the lives of others (e.g., through the political process) and cause pain and suffering for minorities world-wide.

Updated On: 3/11/17 at 05:21 PM

I may have been more receptive to some of qolbinau's points if he hadn't come close to jumping on the Trump crazy train.

I at least appreciate that he has the guts to openly criticise one aspect of this religion (i.e., the relationship between religious beliefs and behaviours such as terrorism),

Guts? I guess it took guts to cozy up to the Saudis at lunch in the state dining room at the White House today. The same Saudi Arabia that Noam Chomsky has described as "center of radical Islamic extremism".

" Chomsky adds that the U.S. ally is "a source of not only funding for extremist radical Islam and the jihadi outgrowths of it, but also, doctrinally, mosques, clerics and so on, schools, you know, madrassas, where you study just Qur’an, is spreading all over the huge Sunni areas from Saudi influence." "

The Good News: Once again America has Israels back in the UN. Nikki Haley is laying down the law!!

US demands UN pull report accusing Israel of apartheid

Envoy Nikki Haley says Washington outraged by publication; Sec-Gen Guterres distances self from it; Israel slams it as ‘despicable’

That such anti-Israel propaganda would come from a body whose membership nearly universally does not recognize Israel is unsurprising,” said Haley.

Based in Beirut, ESCWA is comprised of 18 Arab countries, according to its website, which lists the state of Palestine as a full member, and works to strengthen cooperation and promote development

Haley has accused the United Nations of being biased against Israel and has vowed as President Donald Trump’s envoy to staunchly defend Israel at the world body.

UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said “the report as it stands does not reflect the views of the secretary-general” and was done without consultations with the UN secretariat



United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres shaking hands with new US Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley at the United Nations in New York, January 27, 2017. (AFP/Bryan R. Smith)





http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-demands-un-pull-report-accusing-israel-of-apartheid/