Is the Artist Always an "Outsider?"- Page 2

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:18pm

"And don't get me wrong--these kinds of discussion are rare and wonderful."

I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. Despite your post about classes in school, the questions can and should be answered from within your soul. Do you maintain that there is no suffering associated with being an artist?

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:21pm

I very much enjoy your input, jrb.

I was actually not looking for a classroom-type discussion, but other artists to offer their observations and experience.

I thought I may be able to come closer to an answer but I don't expect to figure it all out in one thread! Or one day or one year.

Jane2, I think when the artist has a unique personality, very individual, it is hard for others to understand them. They want to lump that artist into a category but the uniqueness tends to defy categories. I wonder if that makes other people uncomfortable because they don't understand them. Personally, I like people with very distinct individual personalities because to me they are interesting. Updated On: 8/17/06 at 05:21 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:24pm

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said "there is no suffering associated with being an artist?"

I said it was not a requirement. And has been presented by many people, much art has been created from happiness. This is why I liked John Popa's idea that PASSION creates great art.

And we can answer questions within our soul as much as we please and we can believe whatever we want to believe, but there is a history of dramatic theory and criticism that goes back to the beginning of art that dictates pretty uncanny absolutes and definitions of the very things we all debate and struggle with.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:27pm

Whoops. Suffering is the other thread.

I know they're a little connected but I'm trying to look at POV in this one.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:28pm

How is a classroom of artists different than a thread of artists?

I don't think you really want other people's opinion unless they agree with you. I think you want desperately to be a suffering, unique, outsider artist--or to have some comfort in being that. And you've only rebeled against anyone who has shattered that facade by implying that it doesn't have to be that way.

And, furthermore, being a suffering, unique, outsider artist does not make one's art greater or deeper. There are many paths to greatness.

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:32pm

Nom, I think we're on the same page on this topic. An artist, invariably passionate about his art, is bound to run into many obstacles throughout life, not only in trying to be clear about the art and express what he feels, but against objections and rejections from others.

Anyone who is familiar with the most outstanding bios of our great artists such as Mozart, Van Gogh, Lautrec, Michelangelo, Beethoven, we could go on and on, can see how much suffering some of our artists have done. The stories are quite interesting, also!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:37pm

Well, even though you are "ignoring me" to have your "we agree on this matter aren't we so brilliant--but oh so suffering through our brilliance" love fest, I will clarify by saying

WE ALL GOT PAINS, EFFIE.

You think there isn't a person on this planet who doesn't have tragedy in their life? And somehow, we're supoerior because we write or paint or sing or smear chocolate sauce all over our bodies about it?

No, artists are great because they have something to say. Something to entertain. Something to provoke thought.

Not because they could have their own series of "Starting Over".

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:42pm

Are you talking to me? Am I EFfie? I didn't know I was ignoring you. I see that you and I don't agree on this topic at all and I would rather not argue. And, I think you sound angry. I love this topic and I don't want to become angry about it. I'm just going to say that I'm glad you're an artist who doesn't suffer for it. and talking about putting words in someone's mouth-who said we're superior because we write or paint? Y OU DID. I WISH TO HELL I WAS BORN UNARTISTIC AND INSENSITIVE, OK??????? I"D BE MUCH HAPPIER. This was interesting while it lasted.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:44pm

Well, that was pretty vehement, jrb.

I just said I was looking for viewpoints, jrb. Perhaps you interpret my attempt to respond to the viewpoint and analyze it and hold it up to see if it withstands criticism from different angles as somehow not wanting another opinion. But that's not true. I've already said I'm not sure what the answer is.

I did find Jane2's statements resonated with something very deeply in me, a recognition of them as coming from long years of experience. But no one should resent that. She was articulating something well.

I am trying to look at the art and POV itself impersonally, though you can use personal examples to express the relationship. You may have noticed I'm never trying to promote anything I've done on here or ask people to see or read it. So, no, the thread is about ideas of art and POV, not me. Updated On: 8/17/06 at 05:44 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:44pm

"You think there isn't a person on this planet who doesn't have tragedy in their life?"

BTW, we're talking about tragedy and pain connected to being an artist here.

Whew

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:44pm

Well, I wasn't angry--just very sarcastic. But I see I knocked you off your rocker. Calm down, sweetie.

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:45pm

Sorry if I offended anyone, I was kidding. I also meant to emphasize "PHILOSOPHICAL".

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:45pm

"And, I think you sound angry."

Oh, here we go.

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:51pm

Calm down, sweetie.

I have calmed down. toots. Now read your pm.

Off to work I go!

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:55pm

bwaylvsong, your comment was funny and you did not offend.

I have actually been thrilled to find some folks to give input on this subject as I was mulling it over today.

A variety of opinions expands thought.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:55pm

Look at it this way--that next photo will be GORGEOUS. Thanks to lil ol me.

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:02pm

BTW Jerby, I think my outburst (typing in all caps for one sentence) is quite indicative of an artist's temprament! ciao.